| Allan Siegel on Fri, 12 May 2023 09:56:12 +0200 (CEST) |
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| Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh? |
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Hello Felix, Ted et al... Podinski's suggestion: "i was pondering if it would be feasible and desirable to develop+ curate collective-member entities or parties on such a list." I think this concept is worth considering. At a moment when serious discourse is buried in substackTHIS and substackTHAT - an advanced form of neoliberal 'cultural' production - we need to nourish and develop sustainable collective web-based entitles that nurture discursive practices that address some of the critical 'information and ideas' needs facing our current global corporate meltdown. Basically we need new paradigms in which the responsibilities of maintenance and emotional endurance doesn't rest on a handful of shoulders... best allan On 2023Friday. 05. 12. 3:18, podinski wrote: Hi Felix, Ted and all, I can't help but feel it would be a mistake to close the list! While I can understand if those who are currently holding the fort might feel they no longer want the responsibilities ( what those are exactly is not so clear )... But really, a network of this caliber being unplugged ? discontinued? abandoned? It's a valuable resource, a rare configuration of community minds, an unusual arts+politics+? roundtable to process and analyse, dialogue and debate crucial matters for navigating our challenging times. ... Sure there will be lulls of activity... but i dont see why this would be a reason to close. There are a number of things that could probably use new strategies or adaptation ... to improve participation. Also in regards to a web world that may be considered far more predatory than when Nettime began. ( i.e. i was pondering if it would be feasible and desirable to develop + curate collective-member entities or parties on such a list, where the people within your group/team/collective/party may know who you are, but the wider list would not... Like a Bourbaki channel, a Wu Ming family or an anti-war coalition, or a subgenius committee, etc. ... And i mention this because these days i think responding to a giant list of people whom you cannot know who all is reading, and where comments are archived in some form of web eternity. etc. is a very intimidating matter. It would possibly open up a safer space to new people to speak, and even for old nettimers to speak ... more authenticly? ) Ok, just imagining some weird list experimentation and/or evolutions... And btw, the fediverse is cool, but i dont see that replacing what lists like this one provide. ... respex ! podinski On 12/05/23 02:00, nettime-l-request@lists.kein.org wrote:Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to nettime-l@lists.kein.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nettime-l-request@lists.kein.org You can reach the person managing the list at nettime-l-owner@lists.kein.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: closing nettime-l, uh? (Annette Springborn) 2. Re: closing nettime-l, uh? (Sean Cubitt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 01:17:14 +0200 From: Annette Springborn <antenne@springborn.net> To: nettime-l <nettime-l@kein.org>, nettime-l@lists.kein.org, Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com> Subject: Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh? Message-ID: D82CBBCB-409D-49AC-B2AF-57B6BDEF26F2@springborn.net"><D82CBBCB-409D-49AC-B2AF-57B6BDEF26F2@springborn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Felix, dear nettimers, No, please do not close this list! I have been a decades long lurker and I just recently found that it is still precious to me and that I want to keep it as a part of my daily digital life. I would miss it and would very much appreciate it to stay alive. Please don?t stop now because it might be a little silent right now or because of technical issues. I understand that you might be frustrated at this point but I would very much appreciate the list to be continued and hope this is possible! Thank you all for all this! Merci <3 With kind regards, Antenne Springborn.Am 12.05.2023 um 00:06 schrieb Francesco Mecca <me@francescomecca.eu>: ? Please, don't close the list. I have been a long time lurker but greatly enjoyed the content. It would be a great loss. F.M.On 11 May 2023 21:10:27 CEST, Geoffrey Goodell <goodell@oxonia.net> wrote: Hi Felix and all, No. Let's not close the list. I believe that Jan's offer of help is valuable. Why is it not sufficient? Is it because it does not come with a server? Well, I have a server that can be put to good use here. I'll be able to sort out the details by tomorrow at the latest, but there is no reason why we cannot install Mailman and some MX records. Really, this is not a big deal. Are there other kinds of volunteers needed? Really, let's be explicit. We have the capacity. I look forward to coordinating with Jan, and perhaps others, to make this transition a success. I do not seek to usurp anyone's authority here: I am happy to do this to be helpful but will gladly support others to make this happen instead, if others are more appropriate for the job. But what I can say is that nettime-l will continue, barring some explicit attempt to block it. Please let me know: (a) If you want to help me, or (b) If you think you can lead/run/support this better than I can (I won't argue with you if so. My goal is for nettime to continue.) Best wishes and thanks again -- GeoffOn Thu, 11 May 2023 at 02:40:54PM +0200, Felix Stalder wrote: Hi everyone, if I look over the list traffic of the last 10 days, I don't see much energy to continue the list. The only concrete offer to contribute some effort came from Jan Wildeboer. I rally appreciate it, but technical care is only one of the aspects that is necessary to make it worthwhile to continue the list. Thus, after many 'nottime' April Fools Day jokes, let's close the list for real. At this point, I cannot see whom to hand over the list and there is tldr.nettime.org which, of course, is vastly different from the list. Almost 8 years ago. Ted and I -- on invitation for a tactical media anthology that hasn't made it to print (yet) -- wrote an essay of the history of nettime-l. https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1511/msg00001.html It's not without flaws, undoubtedly doesn't do justice to the many people without whom nettime-l would not have come into existence in the first place nor lasted for as long as it has. I'm sure someone will write a better history at some point, and if you want to put something for them on the record -- that is into the archive at nettime.org (and a few other places that also archive the list) -- the time is now. For me, personally, nettime has been of tremendous value, intellectually but also a source of deep and enduring friendships. My life has been better because of nettime and I'm grateful to every contributor and lurker on the list. Felix -- | |||||||||||||||| http://felix.openflows.com | | for secure communication, please use signal | # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://lists.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://lists.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: https://lists.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.kein.org/mailman/private/nettime-l/attachments/20230512/de8621d1/attachment-0003.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 23:59:54 +0000 From: Sean Cubitt <sean.cubitt@unimelb.edu.au> To: "nettime-l@lists.kein.org" <nettime-l@lists.kein.org> Subject: Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh? Message-ID: MEYPR01MB6584457B8862DC804DC548FAC4749@MEYPR01MB6584.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com"><MEYPR01MB6584457B8862DC804DC548FAC4749@MEYPR01MB6584.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" adding my voice to the chorus: please don't close down It's been a long time, we get older and tireder and have other priorities but the mailing list has properties that other platforms don't. Much of what;s been great about nettime is the off-channel threads it's spurred, other conversations, IRL events ... I understand the fear of an aging subscriber base you mention in concluding the 'brief history'. There are plenty of brilliant young thinkers, activists, artists, and they may have their own channels and preferred media. But the cunning of age is not a resource to squander either. The imminent collapse of the unified Internet linguistically, geographically, commercially and technically is one of the major new challenges; the relation between network media use and its ecological consequences (text v streaming?); the question of whether AIs will ever be allowed to fulfil their potential instead of endlessly trying to pass some tedious Turing test, the tyranny of post-truth ... and the wild potential locked up the toolset because, despite its rhetoric, capital is profoundly risk-averse and will not abandon its ways even faced with species suicide, the potential to gamble on a future worth the name, alterlife instead of afterlife : nettime still has work to do with thanks to everyone who has made it possible to think this and share it Se?n I acknowledge the Boonwurrong and Wurundjeri peoples of the Kulin nation on whose unceded lands I live and work ________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 00:05:35 +0200 From: Francesco Mecca <me@francescomecca.eu> To: nettime-l@lists.kein.org, Geoffrey Goodell <goodell@oxonia.net>, Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com> Cc: nettime-l <nettime-l@kein.org> Subject: Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh? Message-ID: 36F00C45-8057-49A0-B9D5-DD110F9475F0@francescomecca.eu"><36F00C45-8057-49A0-B9D5-DD110F9475F0@francescomecca.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Please, don't close the list. I have been a long time lurker but greatly enjoyed the content. It would be a great loss. F.M.On Thu, 11 May 2023 at 02:40:54PM +0200, Felix Stalder wrote:Hi everyone, if I look over the list traffic of the last 10 days, I don't see much energy to continue the list. The only concrete offer to contribute some effort came from Jan Wildeboer. I rally appreciate it, but technical care is only one of the aspects that is necessary to make it worthwhile to continue the list. Thus, after many 'nottime' April Fools Day jokes, let's close the list for real. At this point, I cannot see whom to hand over the list and there is tldr.nettime.org which, of course, is vastly different from the list. Almost 8 years ago. Ted and I -- on invitation for a tactical media anthology that hasn't made it to print (yet) -- wrote an essay of the history of nettime-l. https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1511/msg00001.html It's not without flaws, undoubtedly doesn't do justice to the many people without whom nettime-l would not have come into existence in the first place nor lasted for as long as it has. I'm sure someone will write a better history at some point, and if you want to put something for them on the record -- that is into the archive at nettime.org (and a few other places that also archive the list) -- the time is now. For me, personally, nettime has been of tremendous value, intellectually but also a source of deep and enduring friendships. My life has been better because of nettime and I'm grateful to every contributor and lurker on the list. Felix-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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