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Re: <nettime> Fascism in the USA [3x]
nettime digest on Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:37:16 +0200 (CEST)

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Re: <nettime> Fascism in the USA [3x]

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   Re: <nettime> Re: [pure-silver]: Suspicious Circumstance                        
     Bill Spornitz <spornitz {AT} mts.net>                                                

   Are You Well-Informed?                                                          
     Newmedia {AT} aol.com                                                                

   Mass-Media RULES!!                                                              
     Newmedia {AT} aol.com                                                                


Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 19:59:49 -0500
From: Bill Spornitz <spornitz {AT} mts.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Re: [pure-silver]: Suspicious Circumstance

This is what makes America the bad neighbour that it is... the basic 
belief that *as long as a lawyer gets paid* they don't have to be 
responsible for their cops and, don't worry, at least *their* kids 
will be safer that  those poor unfortunates who have the bad luck of 
living where their army (bad cops on cheap booze) kicks butt monday 
to friday, doubletime on sunday...


>  >From: wade tillett
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 2:59 AM
>>To: nettime-l {AT} bbs.thing.net
>>Subject: Re: <nettime> Fascism in the USA?
>>Just two weeks ago, I was detained, frisked, interrogated, threatened
>>with indefinite detention and had my camera and film taken from me
>>because I was taking pictures from a public road in the direction
>>of a British Petroleum oil tank facility in East Chicago, Indiana.


Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:13:50 -0400
From: Newmedia {AT} aol.com
Subject: Are You Well-Informed?


> Mark, you should try to be less dismissive.

Not quite sure why I bother but as long as you are handing out advice -- my advice to you would be to stop personalizing everything . . . particularly when you don't know any of the people involved.

When I asked if some people who were reported being "terrified" were well-informed, I was making ZERO comment about their social status or  life details -- just asking if they are WELL-INFORMED.

As my "Fascism" note points out, people are filled with all sorts of STUPID "feelings" everyday which they get from MASS-MEDIA.

Typically, the average person's "fear" or "elation" (or whatever other mood you prefer) about the WORLD situation have *no* basis in reality -- by DESIGN.

Reporting that someone (or a whole bunch of someones) who don't "like" what they don't even UNDERSTAND is mostly *useful* if you are trying to SELL them something (i.e. Duct-Tape, for instance) -- which is what OPINION polling was intended for in the first place.

Find someone who is OPPOSED to the current policy drift *and* who is WELL-INFORMED about what is actually happening (say in Civil Liberties or whatever) and then ask them how they "feel" about the world and you might be surprised what you get.

Unless you are SELLING, my advice to you would be to be more dismissive of what "people" are BUYING.


Mark Stahlman
New York City


Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:52:01 -0400
From: Newmedia {AT} aol.com
Subject: Mass-Media RULES!!


Bravo!!  You found Bert Gross' excellent book!!

So, when you cite him saying --

> Each uses informational control and ideological flimflam 
> to get lower and middle-class support for plans to expand 
> the capital and power of the oligarchy and provide suitable 
> rewards for political, professional, scientific, and 
> cultural supporters."

And, then you say --

> I think this is rather descriptive of the state of affairs 
> here in the US.

You *are* clear that this also applies and in CHINA, in GERMANY, in SOUTH AFRICA, in RUSSIA, in BRAZIL -- indeed, anyplace were MASS-MEDIA has become the *environment*, right!!

There's nothing special -- regarding what Gross calls "Friendly Fascism" or what Kermit calls "Fascism of the MIND" -- about the U.S.

It *is* GLOBALISM!!  Mass-media RULES!!

So, I'll ask you the same question I asked Brian -- Can you imagine a way to "fight" the system (which *is* itself mass-media) which does not *use* mass-media?


Mark Stahlman
New York City


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