Aldon Hynes on Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:23:25 +0200 (CEST)

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[Nettime-bold] Re: <nettime> Echelon, privacy and property

   I found Sean's post fascinating, although I
approach it from a different view point.  The comment
that "under capitalism relations between people take
on the fantastic form of relations between objects"
leads me to the psychological realm.  In my mind, I
associate this with the school of psychoanalysis
called "Object Relations".  (ref. Melanie Klein and D.
W. Winnicott.)  and the spin off of "Group Relations",
such as in the writings of Wilfred Bion.

   I must admit that I am not well versed in these
schools of thought, but it seems to me that Sean's
thoughts fit into this framework.  However, when it
gets to the issue of privacy, it seems to diverge. 
Winnicott speaks a lot 'inner reality' and how that
inner reality relates to the external world.  It seems
to me as if one's inner reality is one's private
domain.  The need of privacy, then is a psychological
defence to protect one's inner reality.  As such,
privacy seems beneficial and is part of all humans
independent of the social context they dwell in.

   The contrast is in totalitarian states where
privacy is to be destroyed.  A good example is the
quote from Robert Ley, the organization leader of the
Nazi party: "In Germany there are no private matters
any more.  If you sleep, that's your private matter,
but the moment you wake up and come into contact with
another person, you must remember that you are a
soldier of Adolf Hitler"

   So, money as a form of communication, sure, I have
no problem with that.  It is an interesting idea to
explore.  Relations between people being relations
between objects?  Makes a lot of sense, especially
from a psychological perspective.

   However, when it comes to privacy, I don't relish
becoming a soldier of totalitarian regimes.  I prefer
to keep my poems private until I am ready to publish


--- Sean Cubitt <> wrote:
> Andreas Broeckman suggests I expand a liitle on a
> short post I made
> about Echelon.

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