integer on Sat, 3 Jun 2000 09:22:22 +0200 (CEST)

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>You say that since Serbia is still involved in a war, it is understandable
>that independent media has been largely eliminated. What war are you
>referring to? There are sanctions against Serbia, is that what you are
>referring to? But it seems to me that the main reason the Milosevic
>government has largely eliminated independent media is to silence opposition
>to the government from within the country itself, not to avoid foreign
>propaganda, though the government is very big on the notion that foreign
>propaganda seeks to have its way inside the country (hence the justification
>for eliminating independent media).
>Undoubtedly there is considerable such foreign propaganda. But the students
>are seeking independent media, not foreign media. Whatever the problems are,
>eliminating independent media will not solve them.
>The students are protesting the lack of independent media. This would be a
>good thing to do, were there little independent media (and that is the case)
>regardless of whether a country was at war or not.
>Also, I am far more inclined to trust the inclinations and stance of a
>student movement than many other information sources within or outside
>Yugoslavia. Student movements have a history of basically leading the way
>toward justice during times of injustice. It is a beautiful and delicate
>thing. This power is, in part, due to the natural shield they enjoy by
>virtue of being young and idealistic and otherwise powerless (tough to
>oppress or slaughter the lambs, tough to oppress or slaughter the young,
>tough to slaughter the future, tough to silence young citizens).
>They are demanding three basic things: elections, open universities, and
>independent media. Regardless of the complexity of the situation, these
>three demands are warranted and much to be desired.
>The universities have been shut down by the government and a law has been
>put into place that forbids 'political activity' on campuses. This would
>seem to be a move to quell the student protests.
>The Milosevic government of course maintains that the reasons for their
>oppressive actions are grounded in aggression from outside. But it does seem
>to be the case that, instead, they do not enjoy sufficient support within
>the country to maintain power without such measures. The war and the
>sanctions have provided the government with justification for silencing
>independent media. The student movement appears to be considerably harder to
>silence. In part this is because it is 'grass roots' amid the citizenry.
>I agree that the situation is in many ways confusing and complex. But I
>can't agree with your justifications for the Milosevic government doing what
>it is doing, regardless of NATO etc., and I think the students deserve
>Have you checked out the student site at ?
>It seems to me one of the truly significant web sites. This so called
>information revolution holds the promise, often empty, of international
>communications toward deeper understanding and a better world. The role of
>the Net in the student movement is significant, and we can access it
>directly via their site, and can support them significantly via our own web
>sites by putting The Fist, their symbol of resistance, on our sites and
>linking The Fist to or wherever you think it will help.
>There are graphics on of the fist and there are graphics at
> of The Fist.
>As you said, Thomas, further discussions are welcome. I am by no means fully
>informed on the situation, do not consider myself an expert, and seek
>dialogue also concerning the situation in Yugoslavia.
>Jim Andrews
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> []On Behalf Of Thomas Temme
>> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 4:02 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: <nettime> NATOsevic
>> The same problem goes for the mails being concerned about media-rights and
>> students freedom in Serbia right now. In my point of view Serbia was
>> driven into the role of the bad guy and into the Kosovo-conflict by
>> history and the NATO for reasons I am not absolutely sure about. There is
>> a new book published in Germany by General a.D. Heinz Loquai _Der
>> Kosovo-Konflikt: Wege in einen vermeidbaren Krieg - Die Zeit vom November
>> 1997 bis Maerz 1999_ in the Nomos-Verlag. (The Kosovo-conflict: Ways into
>> an avoidable war). Heinz Loquai is a German general of the Bundeswehr who
>> shows on which unreliable basis the so-called facts about massacres that
>> led Germany and the NATO into the aggression against Serbia were and how
>> these facts were used by politicians.  Also there were descriptions in
>> German leftist newspapers that the CIA and the German equivalent, the BND,
>> were fighting about who may give more tons of weapons to the peace-loving
>> Kosovo-Resistance-Army throughout the ninetees.
>> Besides that point, even though I have empathy for oppressed democrats,
>> media-activists and students in Serbia, the media is not free in any
>> country involved in a war. And Yugoslavia still is in a war. The Western
>> media during the war in Kosovo were not free to send what it wanted, but
>> fortuantely Western media often even worked better on a purely ideological
>> basis for the cause of the NATO than it could if forced to.
>> I find it difficult to simply show solidarity with people who work for a
>> good cause like democracy, if it is one in the western way, or like free
>> media in a situation as is in Serbia, and to forget about the history of
>> these good causes.  If we just assume that the NATO is partly responsible
>> for the situation of the Serbian state, good or not, and that a state's
>> main interest is to maintain its souvereignity, we could conclude that the
>> NATO has driven Serbian government in a situation where it has to oppress
>> certain democratic rights in order to survive. Shortly later the
>> inhabitants of the NATO-reigned states, in a kind of second invasion,
>> start showing all kinds of solidarity with the oppressed. Could we maybe
>> still call this a part of the war, a war with different means?
>> Excuse me if I did not make my point all clear. Further discussions are
>> very welcome under
>>  TT

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