| Case Roole on Tue, 14 May 2002 01:04:02 +0200 (CEST) |
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| Re: [Nettime-nl] het buitenlands begrip van fortuyn |
On Tuesday 14 May 2002 00:33, yoyo enzo wrote: > ik heb m'n twijfels > over het idee dat men het verschijnsel fortuyn > in het buitenland wel helemaal kan volgen > zie het volgende artikel uit een engelse krant > (waarvan de auteur even is kwijtgeraakt, mijn excuus) "Only the Dutch could have a gay sociologist fascist" by Mark Steel The Independent, 9 mei 2002 http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=293152 -cjr > > yoyo > > He has to be one of the unluckiest people in history, that dead Dutchman. > To make a career out of slagging off Islam and then be gunned down by an > animal rights activist. Of all the people that might have taken out a fatwa > against him, I bet he never expected the League Against Fur Coats. Itīs as > if it turned out that Mussolini was strung up by a bunch of Mods, who then > said "Was he a fascist? We had no idea, we just canīt stand skinheads." > > If the assassin had turned out to be a Muslim, the incident would have been > used as further evidence of the need for a war against terror. So to be > consistent, Americaīs "axis of evil" should now include Iraq, Iran, North > Korea and the Vegan Wholefood Fruit and Bean Collective, commencing with a > series of Vulcan bomber raids over this yearīs Glastonbury Festival. > > The murder is further complicated by the fact that only the Dutch could > have a fascist leader who was a gay sociologist. Maybe he was trying to > build a liberal, inclusive fascism, dreaming of the day he could announce > to his followers "and now, after a hard afternoonīs goose-stepping, letīs > relax, massage each otherīs shoulders and get rid off all that tension > before invading a neighbouring country." > > His sexuality has been cited as one of the reasons that he couldnīt have > been a fascist, but the far right seems capable of gliding over these > contradictions. If Hitler had been gay, the only difference to history > would have been the uniforms, when heīd thrown a strop and yelled, "Brown > shirts and jackboots? Have you no sense of colour co-ordination". > > Almost every news item has insisted that "Professor Pim" couldnīt be > labelled in the same bracket as the rest of the European far right. Much of > the coverage has insisted he was simply flamboyant, popular, breaking the > predictable mould and quite liberal really, certainly not a racist. Every > television report told us he was popular with many black people, and you > half expected them to continue, "There was no one he loved more than the > Muslims. Look at that bow tie he wore, he was virtually a member of the > Nation of Islam." > > The media also seems to have fallen for the modern racistsī trick, as the > main evidence of those suggesting that his party wasnīt racist is that he > said it wasnīt racist. Maybe this should apply to other areas of reporting. > "Our investigations prove that the man convicted of murder canīt have > carried out the crime, because we asked him īare you a murderer?ī and he > went out of his way to say īNoī." > > But Pim Fortuyn did try to build a movement around the demand to halt > immigration, particularly against Muslims, whose religion he regularly > described as sick and backward. In some areas, he complained, Dutch people > "no longer hear their own language." When did the Dutch start complaining > about this? The whole point of being Dutch is to speak 40 languages. > Everything in Amsterdam is in English or German, so why didnīt he complain > about that? It seems there were only certain foreign languages he objected > to, connected to the race of the people speaking them. > > "Holland is full," was his favourite slogan. Whenever someone says a > country is "full", I imagine they see the place as a nightclub, in need of > bouncers who scowl at the queue to get in, occasionally saying, "Right, > Iīve just heard thereīs been a couple of cremations so Iīll let two of you > in. Just two you, get back." Europe has double the population it had 100 > years ago, so at what point was each bit "full"? But a country is only > deemed full to certain people. No one complains about the number of > Australians or Americans living in Europe. And most people move to another > place at some point in their life. When I moved from Kent to south London, > which is more "full" than Holland, no one demanded that I moved back, > yelling, "Thereīs no room, anyway we donīt want your funny ways, watching > cricket and growing hops all over the place. We drink lager here, not > bitter, because multi-culturalism doesnīt work." > > Itīs true that Le Pen didnīt like Fortuyn, but then Mussolini didnīt like > Hitler. And one clue as to whether Fortuynīs appeal revolved around racism > was the chant of crowds of his supporters after his death "Pim was our > Hitler." Now why would they have yelled that? Was it a) because they were > attracted to his racism which, they felt, was as strident as that of > Hitler. Or b) because they have been misinformed and believe Hitler to have > been a gay sociologist? > > His assassin hasnīt done anything to solve the problem of racism, but that > doesnīt mean his target wasnīt a racist. And it may turn out that Fortuynīs > party does better than ever in the elections as a result. In which case you > can expect Blair to make a visit to John Prescott one week before the next > election, and say "John thereīs something I want you to do for the party > it involves a bit of sacrifice but itīs for the good of the democratic > process..." > > --- "Guusbert van der Tak" <guusbert@hotmail.com> wrote: > >Beste Marius van Dam, > > > >Ga jij maar fijn een zwarte lijst bijhouden terwijl ze in het buitenland > > wel de ontwikkelingen rondom pim fortuyn begrijpen. Gelukkig maar > > overigens, want het zou niet veel goeds doen voor de pr van nederland als > > zoveel mensen uitlopen voor een "extreem rechtse politicus", the Dutch > > Devil. > > > >regards, > > > >Felicia > > > > > >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:11:25 +0200 > >Subject: Re: [Nettime-nl] Re: Beste schrijvers... > > From: Marius van Dam <mailinglists@vandam.nu> > > >To: <nettime-nl@nettime.org> > > > >on 12/5/02 01:02, ReindeR Rustema at subscriptions@reinder.rustema.nl > > wrote= > > > >>Ik kreeg trouwens nota bene uit Frankrijk een tekst toegestuurd van > >>Adam Curry (ze kennen hem daar niet) die zich kwaad heeft gemaakt > >>over het feit dat onze Pim onterecht overal in het buitenland als > >>extreem-rechts werd neergezet. Beetje warrig geschreven overigens, > >>maar het staat op http://davenet.userland.com/ onder 'The Big Lie' > >>van 9 mei. Curry keert zich steeds meer af van televisie, dat is nu > >>wel duidelijk. > > > >Ik stuitte enkele dagen geleden ook al op dit monster van een 'artikel'. > >Misschien interessant te melden dat curry hierin aangeeft dat hij zich > >eventueel aan wil sluiten bij LPF om zo zijn ICT kennis beschikbaar te > >stellen. > >Toen Nederland nog een land was van gematigde politiek, niet zo lang > >geleden, was het niet van iedereen duidelijk waar hij stond. Nu kan ik > >steeds meer BN-ers op mijn zwarte lijst zetten. (figuurlijk dan h=E8!) > >Dat geld trouwens ook in het dagelijks leven. > > From : > > >"Guusbert van der Tak" <guusbert@hotmail.com> > >Reply-To : > >media-culture@yahoogroups.com > >To : > >media-culture@yahoogroups.com > >Subject : > >Re: [media-culture] Pim Fortuin > >Date : > >Wed, 08 May 2002 22:34:04 +0000 > > Reply Reply All Forward Delete Printer Friendly Version > > > >>From: john O'Hare <j.ohare@qut.edu.au> > >>Reply-To: media-culture@yahoogroups.com > >>To: media-culture@yahoogroups.com > >>Subject: Re: [media-culture] Pim Fortuin > >>Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:47:25 +1000 > >> > >> In a humane society, any Human being assassinated for their > >>political views will obviously be martyred. > >> > >>I'd rather align myself with this view, than a politic that wishes > >>people dead just because they don't agree with me! > >> > >>No of course the Dutch people are not all right wing, they are being > >>compassionate & civilized in their response to an act of injustice > >>within their society! > >> > >>John O'Hare > >> > >> >The living Dutch devil has died a national hero. > >> > > >> >Should one assume that the Dutch are all extreme right-wing -or that > >> > the media got his image seriously wrong? > >> > > >> >trevor > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >To unsubscribe, email media-culture-unsubscribe@egroups.com > >> > > >> > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >> > >>-- > >>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* > >> > >>John O'Hare > >>Head of Acting and Technical Production > >>Creative Industries Acting > >>Ph: 07-3864-3221, fax: 3864-5782 > >>Mob: 0419 494 371 > >> > >>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* > > > >It's unbelieveble that in foreign countries media keep saying Pim Fortuyn > >was extreme right wing. I really wonder where they get this information ! > > I strongle advise them to first read his books, check out what he stands > > for and the relation to politcs in the Netherlands. Only then they will > > see through the false barrier of associations and information, things > > that are been said about Pim Fortuyn. It's very tragic that everyone > > keeps calling him extreme right wing, and keeps comparing him to le Pen > > and Haider. I thing it's a bit stupid and easy to do, because i know they > > haven't read any of his books (+ know enough about the social and > > political situation in Holland to place things in the right context) Pim > > fortuyn certainly doesnt deserve this, to be called a Dutch Devil. I do > > hope this opinion will be straightened out and corrected someday. > > > >Felicia > >(Holland) > > > > > >Dear Felicia, > > > >Guusbert van der Tak wrote: > >>Pim fortuyn certainly doesnt > >>deserve this, to be called a Dutch Devil. I do hope this opinion will be > >>straightened out and corrected someday. > > > >I believe that if you read my messages properly then you should realize > >that my reference to a "Dutch devil" was ironic -and that basically I > >agree with you. > > > >It is indeed a very complex (and interesting) situation. After almost 30 > >years of living here -I have to admit that I dislike Holland intensly. > >Probably for reasons which are very close to the things which have made > >Fortuin so popular -an interesting paradox! > > > >If things so continue -then I might even get to like it here again. > > > >Best wishes, > >trevor > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > >______________________________________________________ > >* Verspreid via nettime-nl. 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