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<nettime> yugoslovia/nato digest [gurciullo ('nixon'), ivanovic ('garvey
nettime's_indigestive_system on Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:49:17 +0200 (CEST)


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<nettime> yugoslovia/nato digest [gurciullo ('nixon'), ivanovic ('garvey')]


    [this is where moderation gets really hard, because it
     involves conflicting interests--and not just 'individ-
     ual' interests. as the belligerents in the war are be-
     ginning to learn, war has a way of reproducing itself. 
     please ask yourself whether you want to start causing
     or furthering war on this list too. --cheers, t]

Sebastian Gurciullo <nicolajn {AT} cassius.its.unimelb.edu.au>
          Serbian nationalism justifies mass murder?
"marcus garvey" <m-g {AT} matgnet.com>
          Re: yugoslavia digest Thu Apr 1 [barbrook, bennahum, rolux]

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Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:48:23 +1000
From: Nicola Nixon <nicolajn {AT} cassius.its.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: Serbian nationalism justifies mass murder?

"Do we really have to be sent these paranoid rants by the
apologists for
Serbian fascism?",  wrote Richard Barbrook

Is there no-one with email access in Serbia who doesn't fall
into the position of being an apologist for Milosevic's
regime?

Does being a Serb mean that you are excused from taking
seriously the disturbing events occurring in Kosovo at the
moment?

Does Serbian patriotism include the intention of going down
in history as a supporter of a community determined to
exterminate an ethnic minority in their midst?

The general tone of emails on this list seems to suggest
that this is the case.

Angry justifications of Serbian nationalism in the face of
the current NATO military action seems to slip all too
easily into mindless propaganda and an apology for ethnic
cleansing, mass murder, terror and god knows what other evil
possibilities.

Do people wishing to identify themselves as Serbian
automatically commit themselves to defending the actions of
a Fascist Serbian government that has imposed censorship and
other dictatorial measures in order to create a distorted
picture of what is actually going on in Kosovo? Who is
willing to claim that the version of reality distributed by
this regime has anything to do with the truth?

The world is watching and waiting to see whether people who
are proud to call themselves Serbian patriots have the
courage to act now in order to avoid being identified in
future by the world community as a member of a nation that
engaged in or justified crimes against humanity.

This email is not meant to defend any particular ethnicity
or nationality in the current crisis. The aim is only to
question the disturbing way in which nationalist sentiment
becomes a de facto justification for crimes against
humanity.

Sebastian Gurciullo

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From: "marcus garvey" <m-g {AT} matgnet.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> yugoslavia digest Thu Apr 1 [barbrook, bennahum, rolux]
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:35:14 +0200

I am a Serb. If you have any prejudice about me, skip this article please.
I have never written anything for this list, only because I'm not into "look
guys, I stucked my foot in toilet again" stuff.
And I'm on the list for about a year and i didn't wanted to bother anyone
with my rubbish.


OK, I really HATE politics.
I joined this list ONLY because of netart, and culture forming around it.
Once or twice I was ready to sign-off the list. First when Ivo Skoric, whose
pages i have red, and liked a lit, triggered POLITICS-WRITING on this list,
mainly about Serbia. Some of the things he said were quite ok. But some
where quite offensive.
Now, one man made me write a mail to nettime, and not about NETART wich I
adore, but about  stinking POLITICS.

I will allow myself to go under his quotes and add some text.
I shall not reply to any further writings about politics, and situation on
Kosovo, no mather what he writes.


-----Original Message-----
From: nettime's_indigestive_system <nettime {AT} Desk.nl>
To: nettime-l {AT} Desk.nl <nettime-l {AT} Desk.nl>
Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 4:26 AM
Subject: <nettime> yugoslavia digest Thu Apr 1 [barbrook, bennahum, rolux]


>
>richard {AT} hrc.wmin.ac.uk (Richard Barbrook)
>         Re: the personal is political/Trivialising Holocaust
>David S. Bennahum <bennahum {AT} wired.com>
>         Re: come on, insomnia, be a bastard
>ROLUX <h0444wol {AT} rz.hu-berlin.de>
>         www.nato.int (down)
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:58:43 +0000
>From: richard {AT} hrc.wmin.ac.uk (Richard Barbrook)
>Subject: Re: <nettime> Re: the personal is political/Trivialising Holocaust
>
>     [re Joerg Koch <koch {AT} well.com>'s message]
>
>Hiya,
>
>>it's interesting to observe how a lot of so-called left-winged people
morph
>>into Nato-cheerleading boosters. Whether the likes of former street
>>fighters like our  German foreign minister Joschka Fischer or French
>>intellectuals or British academics like you, they all believe in the power
>>of bombs.
>>
>
>On the contrary, I'm very sceptical about the power of bombs. I'm even more
>sceptical about the real motives of the USA and its allies for carrying out
>this war against Serbia. However, all these doubts are side issues.
>Milosevic has been planning to exterminate and expel most of the population
>of  Kosovo for many years. To get rid of 90% of 1,800,000 people takes a
>lot of planning. After a massive effort, he has finally managed to provoke


Imagine a normal Albanian family in Albania. Family members 4-5? Imagine
normal Albanian family on Kosovo. Family members 8-10. Why? Because they
can. Because they were allowed to, and backed by the government with social
policy. And now, they want a part of the land, as a state of their own. Why?

>a crisis to carry out his evil scheme. Well-practiced in Croatia and
>Bosnia, his troops can now go into action. Don't they just love their job.


Ok, I fled army pulling out some college papers. If I didn't do that, I
wouldn't be writing this now. I'd be in army. (I'm 23.) Would you consider
me also an "well practiced in Croatia and Bosnia trooper?"

>What does NATO bombing achieve? It ups the costs of his crimes enormously.

Look at NYSE, Dow Jones, and you will see what this bombing is about...

>His troops, arms factories and supplies are 'degraded' (in the surreal
>euphemism of the USAF). Can they stop the destruction of Kosovo? Probably
>not. Will NATO send in ground troops to rescue the Kosovars? Unlikely. But
>doing nothing would have made committing this crime almost cost-free for
>Milosevic. Just like Croatia, just like Bosnia. At least now the Serbian
>army is unlikely to have enough equipment left to invade Macedonia. Maybe

Invasion of Macedonia? Are you FROM MARS?
Macedonia had more chances to be invaded by the Greece or Bulgaria, than
Serbia, and INVASION OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES is not likely for a country like
Serbia. People here stand in a row to buy cigars, not in a row to get guns.
This is not Germany of the 90's and
Macedonia is not Sudetenland. It's more like Kosovo is OUR Sudetenland.

>the independence of  Montenegro will be won with less dead people. The war
>in Europe is not a new phenomenon. It has already been going on for eight
>years. Lots of people have died. Many more will be killed before it is all
>over. Although it may be an exaggeration to compare contemporary events
>with the Holocaust, the Kosovan representative's claim still contains a lot
>of truth. The carefully-planned strategy of the Milosevic regime is the
>deliberate and systematic destruction of an entire people. Sounds familiar?
>What a way to end the twentieth century.
>
>Victory to the KLA!!!

I find tgus remark highly offensive, because KLA is to any normal person a
TERRORIST organisation.

Liberation ARMY (what the "LA" stands for, tells much about the ways of
"liberating" Kosovo).

>Later,
>
>Richard



Later, dear doctor, and please write us what science got you doctor title,
because it sure wasn't history.

Borivoj Ivanovic,
just a student.

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