www.nettime.org
Nettime mailing list archives

<nettime> misc.rumblings [galloway, nathan x 2]
nettime's_digestive_system on Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:31:21 +0200 (MET DST)


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

<nettime> misc.rumblings [galloway, nathan x 2]


Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:55:57 -0800
From: alex {AT} rhizome.org (alex galloway)
Subject: for the record

for the record, i was part of Critical Art Ensemble from 1991 to 1995.

love,

alex

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

From: P Nathan <pacoid {AT} fringeware.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> No Watershed Without Access
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:35:36 -0500 (CDT)

Linear trendline projection... aren't they a hoot?  Of course, citing
"management summaries" *is* a great way to create (highly derivative)
fiction.

I believe that DEC used techniques similar to your argument in in the
mid-1970's (referring to matters with David Ahl, et al.) to conclude
an extremely limited world demand for personal computers.  It only
took 5 years and minimal capital to prove them (*the* intellect in
computing at the time) horridly wrong.

Most any real futurists, i.e. the kind you don't read about in Wired
magazine, avoid using such unaccountable methodologies -- but I was
entertained by reading your nonsense, nonetheless.

pxn.
FringeWare, Inc.


> Looking even further ahead (to 2010) the Internet will still not be a 'mass
> market' compared to radio or TV. Roger Rusch, head of TelAstra presented
> these figures at a Dec. 97 Multimedia via Satellite conference in Seattle,
> Washington.  The study was done for the European Satellite Agency. Of
> course, all are estimates:
> 
> Total % of world using the Internet: 3.2 to 5.3% or 234 to 390 million out
> of 7,302,000,000 people in 2010.
> By income level:
> 
> high: 20-30%     of 1,090,000,000
> upper middle: 2-6% of 662,000,000
> lower middle: .2 to 1 % of 1.450,000,000
> low income: .01 to .2% of 4,100,000,000
 <...> 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

From: P Nathan <pacoid {AT} fringeware.com>
Subject: Re: Hacker Active Matrix; a liberal?: Y2K International Hacktivism
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:25:11 -0500 (CDT)

I'll add to Stefan's comments, for what it's worth --

Many people who (anticipatingly) label themselves "hackers" avoid
things "political", generally due to an unsophisticated bias that
politics must involve linkeage with behemoth macro structure like the
DNC (in the US), and just don't realize the political nature of their
own acts, or how effective politics can be at the level of, say,
someone like Stefan Wray.  What a waste, many need to be enlightened.

So a "hacktivism" conference would be great -- consider this a vote in
favor, and FringeWare would toss in to help with that one.  Please ask
Bruce Sterling to address the happy crowds assembled, particularly if
the conference provides ample and welcomed cross-over with Viridian
Green politics.  I nominate RTMark for the first annual award.

 re: "hackers.com"

I find the writing and politics intensely immature and rather
solipsist in nature, but with it's "heart in the right place".
proliferation of sites strikingly similar to this one began a while
ago.  Why is this example singled out?  No offense (and nice graphics,
BTW), but the act appears to spread mediocrity.  Their definition of
"underground" is particularly telling; it's doubtful they could cite
the literary use for the term, let alone trace their lineage to it.

And BTW, my politics are largely libertarian, but the writer at
"hackers.com" isn't simply influenced by half-assed libertarian
arguments, just naive.  Most of the "cracking" operations I've
witnessed were funded by prominent, independent law firms, and
targeted at multinational corporations who had clearly violated law
(corporate socialists) and yet would probably never face criminal
prosecution.  That scenario alone would tear open the "hackers.com"
epistemology.

pxn.
FringeWare
---
#  distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo {AT} desk.nl and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
#  URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/  contact: nettime-owner {AT} desk.nl