Nettime mailing list archives

<nettime> Anti-Fascism For Kids and Other Juxtapositions
asks on Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:09:03 +0200 (MET DST)

[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

<nettime> Anti-Fascism For Kids and Other Juxtapositions

forwarded with permission

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:51:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Fluxis {AT} aol.com
Subject: Anti-Fascism For Kids and Other Juxtapositions

A recent interview with a web site interested in highlighting the activities
of "youngsters in art" which is run by Child interviewers. This particular 
interview was conducted with a 15 year old girl who wasn't too impressed by 
one38.org, and a preopinion that fascism means Nazi Germany. The interview 
was never published.

Interviewer:    I think your as bad as everything your going against, you
contradict yourself..... That's my opinon of the page.....

Fluxis:    Please list the contradictions?

Interviewer:    figure it our yourself instead of me "spoon feeding you

Fluxis:    Thats an Incorrect assumption. This is debate. I want to know why you
see contradictions when I don't.

Interviewer:    Because, you're against fascism right?

Fluxis:    Correct.

Interviewer:    I feel that your beliefs fall under some kind of mind control,
facsism= being told what to do, blah blah, you were telling me what to do by
telling me to think for myself, and whatever crap you said... you are what you
are against, we all are

Fluxis:    Inevitably.

Interviewer:    You see my point?

Fluxis:    "You were telling me what to do by telling me to think for myself, "
Would you rather I persuade you to believe only what I believe without
thinking for yourself?

Interviewer:    I'd rather nothing, but still, you shouldn't persuade
anyone to
do anything. So therefore, you are what you are against.

Fluxis:    I Shouldn't persuade people to think for themselves?

Interviewer: No.  Let people do things themselves, if someone wants to think
for themself, they will, they don't need you or anyone else telling them what
to do.

Fluxis:    But people don't think. Rather I should allow them to fall for
capitalist propaganda and other mind-controlling substances?

Interviewer:    Instead of worrying about other people, why not worry about
yourself, and your issues?

Fluxis:    My issue is freedom of thought.

Interviewer:    Then stress your own freedom of though, say what you feel,
without trying to get people to do what you want, or agree with you.  You can
have your freedom of speech, but not everyone has to do what you do...

Fluxis:    I can say what I want to say. You can accept what you want to accept.
Where in the web site does it state than anyone must listen to the ideas

Interviewer:    It doesn't, but I see it as something that will brainwash
vulnerable enough.

Fluxis:    Brainwash them into thinking for themselves? Then once they begin
thinking for themselves they can decide whether or not what I say is bullshit,
can't they?

Interviewer:    No, brainwash them into thinking like you.   I think you have
been brainwashed. There was a video somewhere on that, It kept repeating over
and over, "In this sick world everyone is sick"

 Fluxis:    What have I been brainwashed by?

Interviewer:    You tell me

 Fluxis:    Secondly, you were at the wrong website. You went to the
web site. =cw4t7abs is not me.

Interviewer:    No, I didn't. I went to One38.org....

Fluxis:    You went to one38.org and the video was there? Thats impossible. You
must have followed a link to the =cw4t7abs site.

Interviewer:    I don't know where the video was....But I saw it, you sent me

Fluxis:    I know. I sent you to the =cw4t7abs site, as well as 7-11 and one38.

Interviewer:    May I ask you how old you are?

Fluxis:    I fail to see the relevance.

Interviewer:    I am curious, but nevermind.

Fluxis:    But I am admittedly young and its fairly publicized that I am 19.

Interviewer:    And at 19, you seem to have some very strong beleifs..

Fluxis:    I believe only in the freedom to think.

Interviewer:    Is that true? Because you seem to be anti-everything

Fluxis:    As for an ideal that I "push" on others, it is to fight the
repression of individualized thought, commodification of individuals, and
homogenization of what should be diversity.

Interviewer:    So you think everyone should be the same?

 Fluxis:    No. Those are the things I am against. I am against
of individuals, and homogenization of what should be diversity.

Interviewer:    So, I believe that people should be different, but Im not
a spaz
about it.  I believe what I want, and if people don't care, or don't like it,
that is their problem not mine.

Fluxis:    You are inviting your own repression. All progress is made on the

Interviewer:    What's that supposed to mean?

Fluxis:    It means that you are allowing yourself to be an individual, and
don't seem to care about the people who can't be.

Interviewer:    Yes thats true.

Fluxis:    Well then you are, in effect, repressing people.

Interviewer: How is that?  I respect opinons, but If they are something that I
don't like, I don't dwell on it, and I don't change myself for others.

Fluxis:    But you stated you didn't care about what other people do. So in
Germany 1945 you wouldn't have cared about the Nazi beating a Jew and killing
them? Or in Bosnia, Cambodia,
or any endless number of locations?

Interviewer:    That is a different situation

Fluxis:    Why?

Interviewer:    I am talking about ME, in my every day life.  I dont
believe in
fighting and murder.  If I were around in 1945, I would have protested

Fluxis:    Why is physically hurting someone, physically impeding on someones
body, any worse than hurting their mind?

Interviewer:    I didn't say it was. You are taking what I am saying and
twisting the meaning to fit what you want me to say. Be my guest...

Fluxis:    But you say that a jew being beaten by a nazi for being jewish is
bad. Correct?
You say you would have protested it?

Interviewer:    Yes, I would, because i don't believe in fighting. Yes, I
do say
its bad...
No one should be penilized for being what they are

Fluxis:    Okay. But then you say that you don't care about what goes on around
you in your everyday life, to live and let live, correct?

Interviewer:    No, I said I don't care what people think about me
personally.There you go again, changing what i say...is there a reason you are
so difficult?

Fluxis:    You said that you think people should be left alone and allowed to
think what they want to think, correct?

Interviewer:    Yes, in certain circumstances.

Fluxis:    But you would be willing to tell the nazi that he is wrong for
impeding on someone, even though the nazi is doing what he wants to do?

Interviewer:    Yes. Because they are harming someone.  If they were to just
speak, instead of murdering and torturing people, it would be a different

Fluxis:    Speaking, by all means, I believe in freedom of speech 100%...But
what happens when people are inflicting mental injury on someone. Not
neccesarily through speech, but by constant badgering, constant repression,
and constant
mental abuse?

Interviewer:    Your badgering me

Fluxis:    No, I'm not, I'm asking you a question.

Interviewer: You don't get a lotta dates do ya?

Fluxis:    Actually, I have a girlfriend, though I don't see how any of this is
relevant. Would I be less of a person if I was single? Would I be a jew to
your german?

Interviewer:    Im just stating a fact, you seem like a guy who'd give a
girl a
hard time.

Fluxis:    I am a guy who gives a girl who likes to think something to think

Interviewer: And your stereotyping me as a German?

Fluxis:    You just implied that I don't get a lot of dates, because I am
argumentative. That was a stereotype, you can admit it or not.

Interviewer:    No, its not a stereotype, its a personal opinon on a single
person... did i hit a nerve there?

Fluxis:    Not really, since you were wrong.

Interviewer:    whatever

Fluxis:    But what happens when people are inflicted mental injury on someone.
Not neccesarily through speech, but by constant badgering, constant
repression, and constant mental abuse?

Fluxis:    "Did I hit a nerve there?"

Interviewer:    No, you didn't hit a nerve.

Fluxis:    I think we should set something straight: I don't think that just
because someone agrees with something doesn't mean they aren't thinking for

Interviewer:    Coulda fooled me. Then, what is your purpose- What are you
aiming for?

Fluxis:    To make sure people know what they are agreeing with, instead of the
lies that advertising, religion, and even parents, tell them- also, its quite
possible for people to lie to themselves, as well.

Interviewer:    And you think I do such things?

Fluxis:    I think that by questioning everything- including ourselves- we can
get to the truth, see how it affects the world. I don't think you,
specifically do it, I think everyone does it.
I didn't build the website specifically for you, after all.

Interviewer:    Did I say you did? NO.

Fluxis:    Well, you take all of this very personally, for some reason.

Interviewer:    Because, you confuse me, so towards you, I am defensive,
you use
big words, and I don't understand you.

Fluxis:    I'm not trying to confuse you. I just use big words. I don't think
any less of you if you asked what they meant.

Interviewer:    I have..

Fluxis:    I'm sorry. What words?

Interviewer:    I don't have everything written down.. I don't know.

Fluxis:    Well, okay. Have I made myself clear yet?

Interviewer: Clear on what? That you believe in freedom of thought, yes you

Fluxis:    Okay.

Interviewer:    And Have I made myself clear?

Fluxis:    Yes, but i don't agree with you one bit.

Interviewer:     What is it that you don't agree with?

Fluxis:    That trying to get people to think is just as bad as trying to get
people not to think.

Interviewer:    I didn't say that, you say people should think for
but by telling people to do so, you are telling them what to think.

Fluxis:    No, I'm not telling anyone what to think. I'm simply telling them TO

Interviewer:    But by doing that, you are telling them what to think, because
your telling them to do something.

Fluxis:    I'm telling them to think, not what to think, I'm telling them they
should think that thinking is worth thinking about!!!

Interviewer:    But that's telling them what to think...If I tell you to think
about what your saying, or to think for yourself, I am telling you what to

Fluxis:   NOT what, TO!

Interviewer:    Its still what. Are you getting angry?

Fluxis:    So no one should ever suggest a person think about something? Thats
fascism? No, I'm not getting angry. You missed a joke a while back, actually,
but it wasn't very funny, anyway, so don't worry.

Interviewer:    But your saying people should think for themself, if you tell
someone to think for themself, your telling them what to think....do you
understand? What joke?

Fluxis:    I do understand what you are saying, but you are missing a very
important point- suggesting someone think about something isn't the same as
tricking them into thinking about something. One of Hitlers main men, once
asked "How do we cause a people to desire their own repression."

Interviewer:    And your point is?

Fluxis:    I believe in getting people to think about their own liberation! When
you force someone to think about something, you force people to replace the
ideas in their head with your own. When you encourage people to think for
themselves, you encourage them to put their own thoughts in their head.
There's a big difference.

Interviewer:    I agree with you. But not on everything.

Fluxis:    What do you not agree with me on?

Interviewer:    I agree that people should think for themselves

Fluxis:    Thats good.

Interviewer:    But, they should on their own will, by themselves, without
someone telling them what to do.

Fluxis:    (Sighs.) The fact is, though, that most people won't.

Interviewer:    how do you know that, there are billions of people in this
world, have you spoken to each and every one of them?

Fluxis:    Almost no one questions anything, anymore. Its evident in observing
the way society acts. I am talking about America. I have seen enough of
America to feel justified.

Interviewer:    Personally, I question everything everyone I know does, to the
point where they wanna knock me out, but that doesn't mean anything....

Fluxis:    Questioning why you question would be a good idea.

Interviewer:    I question because I feel I want to know why people do

Fluxis:    Sometimes by analyzing everything, even the things we know are good,
we can see how it can affect other aspects of our lives. If you question why
you question you may begin to understand more about what you're questioning.

Fluxis:    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt

Interviewer:    What's that supposed to mean

Fluxis:    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt?

Interviewer:  Yes.

Fluxis:    it means zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.

Interviewer: Why are you saying that though...

Fluxis:    Why shouldn't I say it? zzt zzt zzt zzt!!!!

Interviewer:    Very mature.

Fluxis:    There you go, repressing!  tzzt!!!

Interviewer:    Your so difficult!

Fluxis:    Ye hath passed judgement on maturity! Based on tzzt! Embrace the
difficult, its more interesting than the boring. I have a question for you

Interviewer:    What.....

Fluxis:    How did you get those little odd charectors off your keyboard? Like
those non-ascii graphics?

Interviewer:    alt, then use the numbers on the side of they keyboard

Fluxis:    Wow!

Interviewer:    Do you have a picture of yourself, I'm curious to see who
I have been arguing with.

Fluxis:    There's a self-portrait on one38.org

Interviewer:    Okay, thanks.

Fluxis:    tzzt!

Interviewer:    right back at ya?

Fluxis:    _ 5 1-4N5665"  ________) bi bi!

Interviewer:    yeah.. bye now

Unrelated Quote of The Day:

I was in NO way referring to the whole "jodi gang". I have a very high respect
for that group. I am talking about the ones who are trying to "trendenize" the
internet and have no real perception of what their dealing with


Relevant URLS:


#  distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo {AT} desk.nl and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
#  URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/  contact: nettime-owner {AT} desk.nl