Josephine Bosma on Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:42:09 +0200 (MET DST) |
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<nettime> interview with Kathy Rae Huffman, part two |
JB: So you could say that your phase in Europe is like the third phase in your development. First you concentrate on video art, then you get into the theoretical side of electronic art in general and an international perspective comes to be and then it's video art, technological art and independence. You even create artworks yourself now... Kathy Rae Huffman: Independence comes with a price, and I hope that I am not finished with the phases in my life, but can have several additional lives. I've learned to live in a very modest way in Europe. It's not always so easy, coming from another reality. But anyway: I enjoy it a great deal and wouldn't change my past decisions if given the opportunity. I relocated to Austria in Spring of '91. In '92, I started to work with Mike Hentz from Van Gogh TV. I first had met these guys in '84, and had seen them at various festivals in Europe. They were involved in a very different kind of work then what was going on in America at the time. They were developing technical processes to integrate communications, computer graphics, and TV, with a strong performance element. It was intrigueing. I had spent a lot of time with them in '90, in Linz, with their television piece 'Hotel Pompino.' I invited the group to Boston in early '91. It turned out to be the last show I did in at The ICA, a Van Gogh TV live project with Continental Cable Televisioin. We were able to access the program at MIT, The ICA and at The Computer Museum, and they had an audience which responded to their 4 hour live show. That was a lot of fun. I also organized their All Amerika tour, which Mike Hentz and Benjamin Heidersburger made together, and Van Gogh TV visited several cities in the USA. JB: You were asked to do the Piazzetta part of Van Gogh TV? Kathy Rae Huffman: Yes. In late '91, they invited me to work together to develop different partners for the Piazza Virtuale. This was pretty much a hard years work. From the early part of '92 to the long summer of '93 in Kassel for 100 days of broadcasting. I worked directly with Mike Hentz on this aspect of the VGTV documenta project. For me that was a great opportunity, because it meant working on a longer term project and I was fascinated with their group dynamics, their ability to bring performance and television and this whole new network concept of internet and chats and hackers and coding, a world where I had always felt a bit of an outsider. I was very enthusiastic to jump in and work on this project which actually happened at the Documenta 9, in '92, where I spent the whole summer in Kassel. JB: You said for this you had to travel the eastern block a lot. Kathy Rae Huffman: Mike had a pretty clear idea of what it would take to work in the different countries, he was no stranger to this kind of orgnization. It was very late, it was February and Documenta would start in June. Our travel to each country, was to give the local groups support and training, and to meet with officials for possible funding and access. We travelled in Poland, Russia, Slovenia, Latvia, Finland, Tjechoslovakia, France, Italy, Switzerland, Holland, Austria, and various places in Germany and Austria. This was a great development scheme. Also we had a connection in Japan, which I made during a trip there in January, right after we first talked about the project. There wasn't time to initiate many brand new working relationships, so we had to look at the people we had worked with before, the groups who could be trusted to do something under stress, and who could pull it together in their country. The commitments had to be put into place very fast. Often when it's a concentrated effort like this, you naturally rely on those groups of people who are familiar. We encouraged each group to bring in new people to sort of add to the next generation of experience but there is a level of organisation where you need people who can do the job. There was a lot at stake here. VGTV had one hundred days of programming to do - and a unbelievable low budget to do it with. The piazetta program actually worked very well. It was very intensive and exiting part of the whole hundred days of television broadcasting. JB: Can you tell me which countries it worked best in and in which countries it was hard and what made the difference? Kathy Rae Huffman: There were a lot of technical problems always. Even with Van Gogh TV, who is quite excellent in solving technical problems. They were a bit in advance of standards being set for ISDN lines and various ways to connect with pictures and modems and whatever. For example the ISDN lines between Paris and Kassel had extreme problems getting conformed, the software was not available to modify the different connectivity standards. They were eventually solved. But they weren't solved by listening to the Post and what they had to say. They were solved by these guys who sat down and recoded things. That was a very important thing to observe. There were rules there, but there were also ways to solve problems around these rules. They actually did a lot of research and development for the Deutsche Telekom. It worked well where there was a group of people who wanted to work together and who were willing to jump in and have fun, as well as try some new ideas. It worked least well when there was some feeling of competition with the program in Kassel. So, if the artists felt like they were somehow being used as filler or something like this, that energy was clear. Sometimes when you're far away, and you don't get the relationship, these kind of feelings can develop. So,in every case, artists were invited to come to Kassel. There was money that came from the Soros foundation, and we were given support from Suzanne Meszoly directly from the first exchange projects she organized. This money allowed artists from the east to actually visit Kassel and to provide for translation. This was a very important support for the piazzetta project. Switzerland gave money for coordination costs, so that we could travel and not have to sleep on floors everywhere. We did a lot of that anyway. It was a very low budget international effort. JB: So you had no trouble with bureaucracies of governements? Kathy Rae Huffman: This was the problem of the groups in various countries to organize. I think the idea was that we represented the international program. We tried to answer all the questions to make it clear what they needed to do. We provided them with Picture Phones, which allowed the program to take place without using television transmission - it was early live video transmitted by phone lines, on TV. In the various places we visited, Mike held workshops. We kept copious notes of who all the different people involved were, how to contact them, how to inform them with all the facts and ongoing operation. Remember, this was stil the a time when you still had to phone the international operator and make an appointment to send a fax to Russia. It's not like today, where you can just send an email and ok, they might have some problems getting a dialup phone connection from time to time, but then, there were very severe communication difficulties. You would make an appointment and then sit at the telephone the whole day and wait for the operator to call you. And, if for some reason you were in the toilet, you missed your connection possiblity for the day. That is a very difficult pressure to be under, especially when the program schedule is dense. JB: There hasn't been much visibility or publications about Van Gogh TV's Kassel project in Holland for example, do you know why? Kathy Rae Huffman: I don't think there has been a lot of research into the VGTV projects in general. Of course, they won the Deutscher Mediakunstprize in 1993, which was awarded at the ZKM. As far as I know, there were lectures and presentations at The Next Five Minutes, too. Maybe after 100 days, not everybody wants to keep hearing about it. Also, perhaps because of the technical programming aspects of their work, and the hybrid nature of their interface to the public, it is not the cool technology that media theoreticians are interested in. Meanwhile, in Holland, there was Rabotnik TV, where Menno Grootveld and Maarten Ploeg made a lot of actions. The VPRO had a lot of live interesting program events that happened very early. Most of the people with any history in interactive experimental TV works were invited to participate in the Piazza Virtuale events in Kassel, and they often came to the social gatherings. I think that VGTV had to be very strong and clear to keep their position, because everybody wanted to have some credit for the project. They worked very hard on this project, and made an extreme energy output. In fact, shortly after Documenta the group, which had worked together for 5 years, began to break apart. It was such extreme energy that went into the development of this major, long term project. Piazza Virtuale was created with very little money and had very little support from the Documenta. This was a labor of love. Maybe it looks like it was a high priced thing, but it wasn't. What always impressed me is that they also wanted to make it fun, constantly, for the people who visited. There were fanclubs that self-organized. They would come to Kassel in groups! And, the satellite user groups, who were connected via bbs and electronic mail, who would connect with each other at Piazza Virtuale. They would come and have their meetings in the Piazza. It was amazing, the kinds of new audiences this project developed. JB: What happened with these new audiences, because after this it seems that a long silence set in. Kathy Rae Huffman: It's funny how these things work. You never know immediately who was this audience, especially if it was a television audience. In television, when the program is over, it is over -- it is yesterday's newspaper. It was always a big problem for us working in the eighties to know who was the audience, what effect did any of this artwork on television have. Nobody really knew immediately. It's quite fascinating to me that I am meeting people now, in very strange places, like in Glasgow, or in Spain, people who watched Piazza Virtuale when they were teenagers, and it changed their life. So it does make a difference, it really does. These people are now very active and organizing around issues on the topic. They have no direct contact with this VGTV, but they knew them. In some conversations, when I mentioned what my part was, they say:" Owhaaaaaaoooww, I remember watching that and jumping up and down and thinking this is great! Calling everybody I knew and telling them about it.." Nobody knows these things in the art world, but it must have been going on in various places around the whole European scene. JB: Was there much reflection afterwards, reports or talks? Kathy Rae Huffman: Well yes. They have made dozens of lectures and follow up reports. A documentary was made. There exists a website with a lot of information. Theoretically I think all this area of live TV by artists is still quite open for analyses. Very open. The fact that they were bridging a gap between the program and audience, a direct television connection, actually a live two-way television, nobody knows how to handle this really, even though there have been experiments going on since the late 1960s. Now that we have web-tv, that we have the whole multi-user online environment, (which by the way the Van Gogh TV energy has morphed into very nicely), it might be easier to take the early experiences and relate back. It is a special topic. I like to look back over from the early examples, the sixties, seventies and eighties all have instances when live TV interventions were taking place. It has gradually started to build into a topic that is open for analysis. JB: Can you maybe lift one piece of the curtain and tell us what your conclusion could be or what from your point of view is the most interesting about it? Kathy Rae Huffman: First of all, it is the kind of event that makes much more impact if you can experience it first hand, yourself. Watching a documentary is a bit voyeuristic and it doesn't translate well. It is really something where the more people who can be involved in a first hand way, the better. The problem often is that there aren't enough ways to establish nodes for public contact. VGTV set up Public Entry Points in Kassel, they set up points in different countries, they lent the Picture Phones, and set-up modems, but it was a bit early for the general audience to get involved in it. Therefore, the main players were technically orientated, often hackers and programmers. As the summer went along, and the sections of the program became technically more reliable, consistant, and comfortable for everyone, then poets, performance artists, and live actions were easier for VGTV to incorporate. Now what has happened is that they have the experience from this situation, as well as other programs that they made. Other groups have done live TV, but noone has the major experience of combining Network communication with graphic interfaces, and for such a long period of time. Now, they can take that experience into the webworld of multi-user environments with knowledge. They are aware, and do not treat the Internet like it was something brand new. They go into it with some authority of experience. I think we have to accept that as a very serious attempt to go on and continue to build. This work is important to follow through with. JB: Did you follow it through? Kathy Rae Huffman: I have very good contact with VGTV, yes. I am keeping up on their new projects since documenta XI, and I am thinking about doing more research myself into this area. Because I have changed my own way of working, you know. JB: Exactly, did you follow it through in your own work? What did you do after Van Gogh TV? Kathy Rae Huffman: After Van Gogh TV I went to German school, to (and I still try) to learn German. Then, I went back to Austria then and I started to get online. I had a number of personal changes and challenges. I worked with the Soros Centers for Contemporary Art as a regional consultant for two years, and finished up with the NewMediaLogia symposium in Moscow, in November 1994. I was introduced to many artists who were already discussing connectivity, and setting up personal Internet connections in Russia. The SCCA was then only partially online, and in Moscow Alexei Shulgin was already at hand to assist with connectivity. It was all pre-browser work for the most part. I saw the Mosaic browser for the first time in Moscow at Relcom, it was an exciting breakthrough to contemplate. It was a kind of big cloud of time. I was moving a lot in the east, getting to feel what artists were thinking about. What was fascinating to me was that they wanted to jump over the whole video thing, for the most part. They didn't see any value to deal so much with video or radio, they wanted to go right straight to the Internet. They saw it as their direct link to the world and they could take all the information and just jump right there. Now, I think they are creating some excellent examples of what can be done in the medium. Then, in 1995 I moved to Vienna to work with Hilus intermediale Projektforschung. This was a group of between 6-9 persons, who had organised the event Unit N in Vienna in 1992. I had participated in that program, as did VGTV. Hilus was connected, they were technical, but they were also artists. I joined the group, and contributed my history of media library and tape collection as a resource, as I had no equipment to bring to their studio. There, I was able to work online, in a nice office space. That was in the very beginning of '95. Before that time, I could only get access here and there, or read about it. But all of a sudden, I could really jump in full force. This is also when Eva Wohlgemuth and I.., well, I just got completely captivated by the Internet. I got my email account and all of a sudden within a couple of months I was mailing with friends in America and all over the world. I had fifty to sixty emails a day, then. It just has not stopped since then. JB: You said you immediately got very involved into the internet. I know that the first big project you did was the Siberian Deal. Was that at that moment the thing you concentrated on most, or was it like most of your work: one of the projects you did at a certain time? You do always many overlapping projects. Kathy Rae Huffman: At the time Eva and I started to work together, as always, I needed to earn money to live, so I was writing a little bit for some magazines. I started to organize a video program which dealt with how artists conceived virtual spaces. I worked on this with Carol Anne Klonarides for the '94 Ars Electronica. This was really research into visualized virtual spaces, how could these spaces look and be. It was quite fascinating. I moved on to do another video show, in Luxemburg, which Armin Medosch invited me to curate for Telepolis. I called this show CyberSpaces. Then I made an exchange programs called Ost/West Political Video for the Landesmuseum in Linz. They sponsored the invitation to Tatiana Didenko to come from Russia, to present her video programs made for television, and at the same program, I invited Marty Lucas from Paper Tiger Television, who also presented a program of American political television programs. That is when Eva and I started talking about Siberia. This was in Spring of '95. Eva and I made a dinner for these guests. We found out then that Siberia is a pretty cool place. We had always thought Siberia was a terrible place. So we all agreed --around the table-- that we would go there and find out. We would check our propaganda input, how we had been brainwashed. Eva, being very practical and consciencious, applied for some money from the Austrian ministry. She got a very small grant, I didn't know if I would have time to go. At a certain point I started saying:" Eva, where are you going to go?" "Let's check it on the Internet". So I started to get involved directly by mailing different sysops at institutes and finding out that you can make friends very fast, you don't even have to know the people. We set up an itinenary, where the best places to go might be, talked to people in Austria from Russia, figured out what it might cost, where could we find connectivity. It was so exiting we did not really think about pitfalls or not being able to do it. JB: It seemed like a natural way to do to get the internet involved into all this... Kathy Rae Huffman: It seemed like the only way we would be able to connect. I knew the telephone lines were really bad, but we could connect to these institutes, then we would also be able to connect from them, because they seemed to be always connected. They are on different kind of lines then regular people. We did it and I must admit it was hard work. Looking back, for me it was not a very different process from organizing, the same way I did as a curator, because there is a lot of details that have to be done in this kind of work, as an artists work. There are a lot the same kind of processes. I did it together with Eva. We divided the work, she did the webspace, I made all the negotiations for our plan, the schedules and the connections with the people, which is the same thing as I have done all along. So for me it was not jumping into a really new way of working, it was just reorientating the focus of where I put this energy. That was a very new experience for me. JB: Maybe we can make a big leap, due to lack of time, and jump to Face Settings. Kathy Rae Huffman: That is not such a big leap actually. We finished the Siberian Deal, and we collapsed a little bit. Then we started to sit together and reflect on the experience. To organize the materials and talk about how it affected us, what we wanted to do next. It was a really great way to wrap it up. We looked at the project carefully. After we decided we wanted to work together again, on another project, we went over the kinds of things that worked best for us in Siberian Deal, what were the things we liked to do together, what were the area's of interest we shared, and wanted to find out more about. We took a very methodical way of going forward. We also wanted to try not to get a fixed idea of an end point, but let whatever we did become an open project, where a lot of people could join in, and we would try to guide it in a certain way. Therefore in FACE SETTINGS, we don't aim at some definate artistic goal, like getting a series of portraits made, or something like that. We aim our energy in a certain direction. So now, our travels are devoted towards getting women together in non central European and East European countries, and to learn more about female connectivity and how that might relate to cooking and communication. JB: The decision to make it a project around women, did that come also out of your experiences with Siberian Deal? Kathy Rae Huffman: Neither one of us has worked or been identified as working in a feminist tradition. Neither one of us has ever been recognized in this way, but we wanted to narrow down our scope of working. We knew we couldn't tackle the entire topic of communication, for example. We thought it could be very interesting to take this female topic with women and invite women to deal with it. We knew it would offer a lot of different responses. It was a way of focussing ourselves. We work a lot with men and it's not a thing about men...it really has nothing to do with men. This is a project that we wanted to find out about our female connectivity. We realised we had had a lot of help from women. When we needed information we got it readily from women (and to be honest also with men, but there was a difference). There was a lot of sharing, a lot of community that we felt with women, and we wanted to examine that. We also wanted to bring our experiences to other women who we knew were trying to find out about Internet. Then, we started to read, and to get more aware of all the research being done, and theoretical positions on the topic. JB: In the period that Face Settings now works, can you say that there is a difference in handling the internet between men and women? Kathy Rae Huffman: Most definitely. I think, more in general, women are really caring about their online community. Actually, it is interesting, that the open aspect of Internet, the vast possiblities to meet new people every day online, often is not very satisfying. What we find are pockets of communities built up on common goals, common interests, and shared realities. Women might go about the organization of these communities differently than men do, but that is for someone else to study. We are interested to learn more about our own reactions, and the reactions of our remote groups in the Face Settings project. We hope others can benefit from these communication experiences, and have some good meals at the same time! http://thing.at/face/ http://www.heise.de/tp see: poptarts The Steirischer Herbst exhibition http://www.stherbst.at/zonesofdisturbance Siberian Deal is: http://www.icf.de/siberian_deal (- original travel project) http://www.t0.or.at/~siberian/vrteil.htm * --- # distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@desk.nl and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/ contact: nettime-owner@desk.nl