intima on Wed, 13 Nov 96 12:36 MET

[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

RE: nettime: Nothing to be learned here - Arjen Mulder

hello, pit,

> if self promotion is the concept...
> Nettime is not a junk-mail list...

i must say i'm, surprised. and i don't know what to do now. i'm
a member of nettime e-mailing list for a short time, but i already 
found out that nettime and rhizome are the most interesting lists if 
we are talking about art and web art. so, i don't think that nettime 
is a junk-mail list. maybe it sounds stupid, but i'm offended by 
your words.

there are many informations on nettime list that i use. i regulary visit the 
URLs which are promoted in nettime messages. usualy i don't reply 
via nettime, but (if i do) i send a reply directly to the author. i 
already made a lot of good contacts that way. this contacts which
were established via nettime are bilateral or multilateral contatcts 
- not intima's self promotion.

i sent only 4 messages via nettime.

1. the first was an information about intima and our online projejects.

2. the second was an information about our new web project
interno/inferno with an invitation for co-operation.

were this 2 messages also a self promotion? no, they 
were "information" and "invitation". it's a big diference.

3. my third message was my reply to vuk's invitation for his new
project. my text was short, because it was an information for 
nettimers how did intima contribute in his project. were you angry
also on this message? is your current reply a culmination of previous
your anger? what did i do wrong?

4. my last message was this short reply to "Nothing to be learned
here" we are talking about now.

some messages and replies are (very) short, some are (very) long.
that's normal. so, short e-mail (or short reply) is not a junk mail. 
it can be, but this is not a rule.

in this particular case - a message "Nothing to be learned here" by 
Arjen Mulder - i didn't want to write a long reply to this 
interesting text. i just wanted to point on one important thing and 
nothing else. no philosophy, no self-promotion.

i'm not some frustrated guy who wants to have a lot of trafic on 
intima's web site, internet awards and i don't know what else. from
this point of view i think the automatic signature file in Pegasus 
Mail was meant to be an information only. automatic signature file is 
not a self-promotion file. i always use this automatic signature file
no matter to whom i'm writing an e-mail. and i realy don't calculate
the percentage of a text and this signature. does it realy make you 
so angry? do you think we shoud be anonimous? how many lines in the 
automatic signature file are allowed? would you be less angry if my 
signature file would contain only 2 lines? you see, signature file is 
fixed for all (short and long) messages. a length oh a text in the 
message is the one that is changing every time. should we be so 
extremly precise?

but now i'm thinking something else. you wouldn't send me this e-mail 
if you would think that my (very short?) reply has a reason. so, as 
far as i understand you think that my reply was a junk mail. the 
("self promoting"!?) signature file is not a problem in this case. 
the problem is my text. because if you would think that my reply is
ok even when it's very short, you wouldn't react that way.

well, you can think about my reply whatever you want. it's a free 
"country". but i can only say again, that i realy meant what i wrote
and i'm not going to change my mind in this case.

of course, you always have a power to exclude me from your list,
i can do nothing about it. but please think again about your 
reaction. i think your reaction was an exaggeration. you also have 
a right not to belive me, but i have to say it once again:
- the intention of my message was not a self-promotion, but to give a 
short (to short?) reply to one particilar point of one particular text.
-  i dont think my reply was a junk mail and i'm very sad if the head 
people from one of my most prefered mailing list think that it is.

i'm qiute a social person and i like to communicate. i like to get 
and to give informations. i'm not some egoist who is working only for 
himself. i understand internet as a wonderful communication area 
where informations are free and many. that's why i like nettime.

with messages like this (your reply) you are making an opposite 
efect. if you acusse someone that he/she is active in your list just 
because of self-promotion it can become very dangerous for the 
list. i'm not an agresive person and certainly won't reply for some 
time. and i will think hard before i will.

i realy am offended, sad and i don't understant you.

i wish you all the best for yourself and your list.

(without any signature file this time)

*  distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission
*  <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism,
*  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
*  more info: and "info nettime" in the msg body
*  URL:  contact: