Re: <nettime> nettime-l Digest, Vol 134, Issue 18

On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 19:52, <nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Help (J Contreras)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 13:19:40 -0600
From: J Contreras <jdelccom@gmail.com>
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
Subject: <nettime> Help
Message-ID:
<CAK_E0onwzMsa5Aw3e2uy_cJLzz99x4oqdEp=Uqb=EWcd_+anHw@mail.gmail.com>
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I want to unsubscribe to your mailing list

El dom., 4 nov 2018 8:21 p. m., <nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org> escribi?:

> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Complexity and nostalgia (Hoofd, I.M. (Ingrid))
> 2. Does Nettime have a code of conduct, policies or other
> governance mechanisms? (Ana Ulin)
> 3. Ash Sarkar video (Brian Holmes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 07:00:59 +0000
> From: "Hoofd, I.M. (Ingrid)" <I.M.Hoofd@uu.nl>
> To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia
> Message-ID:
> <7938E6AFF79C1A498FFF683C7B09AB0A2686D7B8@WP0045.soliscom.uu.nl" target="_blank">7938E6AFF79C1A498FFF683C7B09AB0A2686D7B8@WP0045.soliscom.uu.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Lurker here who almost climbed into her pen after many years of silence to
> respond to A.B.s BS and then decided that he's not worth responding too -
> plus others responded so eloquently already (many thanks Alice, Ian,
> Florian and Nina for your excellent remarks!)
>
> On a related and slightly selfish note, I've been looking for some texts
> that discuss the intersection of
> capitalism/patriarchy/colonialism/racism/technology for a reading group of
> artists/academics. Have read Sylvia Federici's work which is good but not
> quite satisfying. Anyone any suggestions? :-)
>
> Cheers, Ingrid.
>
>
> Sent from my HTC
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Nina Tempor?r" <nina-temp@gmx.de>
> To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
> Subject: <nettime> Complexity and nostalgia
> Date: Sun, Nov 4, 2018 00:36
>
>
>
>
> Wow, nettime?s very own James Damore moment -
> And hardly anyone calls him out.
>
> I cannot believe how easily so many people here allowed A.B. to
> intellectually-click-bait
> them into a discussion just because he whispered the magic words ?Marx?
> and ?class?,
> And willingly delivered him material to refine his language for his
> pseudo-philosophical
> White male ?ngst-driven project,
> Even after he had already lashed out in a dangerously generalized way
> against academia,
> After he had already generally denounced identity politics as self-pity
> and whining, after he
> Had claimed gender & race as having no social realities, after he had
> judged the welfare
> State as an infantilization of society and, on top of all, had totally
> ridiculously indulged himself
> In a teenage-like invention rage of cock-culture-worshipping neologisms
> that he obviously enjoys
> To decorate his little short-20th-Century binary phantasy land with.
>
> While a few of the answers with serious reactions to the classism question
> were really a
> Pleasure to read and very much worth considering under different premises,
> I don?t understand
> why almost nobody here (except for Alice, Ian, and Florian - thanks for
> your interventions) did see
> The contradiction that the very same people he claims to be wanting to
> work with in that new class
> War he dreams of, get insulted so badly and in a hierarchy-reproducing
> manner, that a future
> Cooperation is being boycotted before it has even started.
>
> Is that really only a sad lack of strategic thinking? Or not rather
> revealing how inclusive his
> New class war phantasy actually is, and whose perspective he expects to be
> adopted as
> Conceptual lead?
>
> There is a big difference between disagreement and lashing out in a way
> that reveals absolute
> Entitlement, and even worse: the assumption to be ?safe? when stating such
> stuff in a place
> Like nettime mailing list.
>
> It?s so tiring to be forced to point out, once more, that entitlement is
> key in this problematic:
>
> While Alexander and his followers have very well understood that investing
> into digital literacy
> Is an absolute necessity if they want to survive in these times, any
> knowledge update in relation to
> Gender & anti-racism debates is shrugged of as community-specific
> expertise (and commented
> With the reproach of having an only self-healing effect) instead of
> understood as the fundamental,
> Constitutive (not so new) change of perspective, without which no thorough
> analysis of class
> Struggle can withstand.
>
> It was really interesting to read Dan?s report/ analysis of the beginning
> of ?identity politics? in the US
> (In Europe, I assume, this is a slightly different story) and his
> acknowledgement/ claim that it is his
> Generation's own fault not to have passed on the historic context to the
> next generation.
> I would really like to engage in this discussion by asking if it is really
> about the lack of history in a
> Negative sense, or, if the (assumed) lack of history/ continuity might not
> be _expression_ of a generally
> Positive phenomenon: the attitude of a generation being sick of any kind
> of further waiting and gradual
> Development, legitimately bold enough to demand full acceptance here and
> now - even if this leads to
> A roundhouse-kick-radicality that sometimes feels moralizing and partly
> unfair even to antecedent
> activists. (And no, I am not part of that generation and often enough
> annoyed myself, but try to
> Understand.)
>
> I?m not keen of discussing it in a context, though, where Alexander Bard
> can blatantly display his near-hatred
> Anger on certain minority activism without being sanctioned, just days
> after a shooting in a synagogue and
> Lethal threats to critics of Trump, with daily Police brutality towards
> POC, regular attacks on homes for asylum
> Seekers in Germany, harassment of anti-Trump academics in the US and
> similar harassments of academics
> Criticising right-wing politics now - even structurally organised - by the
> AfD in Germany as well, and ongoing
> And normalised discrimination of and assaults on women.
> Incitement to violence is a spark easily ignited these days.
>
> Last but not least, I have the impression A.B. never really had to speak
> up for himself against a mainstream
> Opinion, otherwise he would know how much courage it takes and that it is
> no way just 'fighting for one?s
> Own good? but helps numerous others affected by that norm, and that
> keeping quiet and adapting, even at
> The high price of ongoing unfair treatment, is often the easier way.
>
> It seems to be necessary to point out that repeating just a mainstream
> opinion, once it is tumbling and
> Forced to open up to multi-perspective views, does n o t count as such.
>
> Best, N
> Ps: Alice and Ian, your mails arrived while I wrote this, thanks again
>
>
> Am 03.11.2018 um 18:30 schrieb Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com
> <mailto:bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com>>:
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 7:11 AM Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com<mailto:
> felix@openflows.com>> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018, 6:07 AM Alexander Bard <bardissimo@gmail.com<mailto:
> bardissimo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 21:45:25 -0700
> From: Ana Ulin <ana@ulin.org>
> To: angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com
> Cc: nettime-l@kein.org
> Subject: <nettime> Does Nettime have a code of conduct, policies or
> other governance mechanisms?
> Message-ID:
> <CAN36svsMmH2HS68ng3bcF+EmL+UOkHCXcoBN7TXp0hCf9Ld=
> GA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That is a great question, Angela. I, too, would love to know if there are
> any policy, code of conduct or other mechanism that governs what is or is
> not acceptable in this space.
>
> I've been listening in on Nettime for a few weeks now, trying to decide if
> it is a good fit for me. The fact that Willem's intentionally rude and
> dismissive response to Angela seems to be welcome here, coupled with all
> the airtime that has been given to Mr Best Intentions, suggests that this
> space is either wholly ungoverned or that such behavior is explicitly
> welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> Ana
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:21 PM Angela Mitropoulos <
> angela.mitropoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> > platform from which to recruit?
> >
> > Angela
> >
> >
> >
> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
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> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 20:21:13 -0700
> From: Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com>
> To: nettime <nettime-l@kein.org>
> Subject: <nettime> Ash Sarkar video
> Message-ID:
> <CANuiTgzUYhJ89JyA5Ag0qm9R3Cb-QkKA4qXBiAQ2oY9=
> zi6OvA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Alexander's positions have been thoroughly critiqued from many quarters.
> After building on those critiques, Ian has just enumerated his many
> reactionary statements. I think it's definitive and I won't engage with him
> anymore.
>
> Ari just sent in a video where a brilliant young woman, Ash Sarkar, talks
> about the deliberate persecution of black radical socialists after the
> 1960s, and about the way that leftist social movements were weakened as a
> result. She goes on to develop a class analysis which doesn't diss off
> intersectionality (that's the main identity politics concept she discusses)
> but instead, fills the gaps she sees in present-day politics on the left.
> In the middle of it she invokes Angela Davis, a black Marxist feminist who
> was not killed in the 1970s and went on, among other things, to help start
> the movement against mass incarceration which has been one of the key
> forces of change in American life during these last years. The only point
> where I might disagree with her is that Angela Davis has certainly not been
> forgotten in the US, though maybe in the UK, so in that case, let's
> remember a little.
>
> The difference is: talking about specific people and events in the present,
> building constructive positions, and covering an amazing amount of ground
> in short words.
>
> Check it out if you missed it:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5_-jA2X18
>
> best, Brian
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End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 134, Issue 18
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