<nettime> rules for the pre-digital world [digest x3: medosch, mp, ippolito]

[nettime's_eternal_carriage_return <nettime@kein.org>]

Re: Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Rules for the digital world

     Armin Medosch <armin@easynet.co.uk>
     mp <mp@aktivix.org>
     Jon Ippolito <jippolito@maine.edu>

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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:17:32 +0000
Subject: Re: <nettime> Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Rules for the digital world
From: Armin Medosch <armin@easynet.co.uk>

try Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels for a start

best
Armin

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:16 PM, mp <mp@aktivix.org> wrote:

> On 11/03/14 13:27, Armin Medosch wrote:
> > Hi MP,
> >
> > it is not so difficult. There's capital, and its not homogenous.
> > There are capitals of a different era and of a different kind - such
> > as industrial, agro-business, and financial capital. There are
> > different modes of production and social relations that go with it.
> > It is not about 'for' or 'against' or naive versions of 'good' and
> > 'bad' but if we want to understand the world we live in - and to
> > preempt any questions, I think to some degree this is possible -
> > then we need to engage with such concepts that great social
> > scientists have developed
>
> I don't get it. Sounds strangely abstract/academic to me, or maybe I am
> just stupid.
 <...>

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Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:56:57 +0100
From: mp <mp@aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Rules for the digital world


On 11/03/14 17:17, Armin Medosch wrote:

> try Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels for a start

I feared that. I tried them. I tried listening to their followers -
although I don't appreciate followship, I still listened - and then I
had to run for the bog.

But I hear that serious capitalists read them, apparently they produced
some sort of manual for the advance of capital interests. On the other
hand, I also noted that literacy in their stuff has been very useful for
the advancement of elitist careers in the knowledge industry. So all in
all, not really my cup of tea.

But thanks for the tip.

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From: Jon Ippolito <jippolito@maine.edu>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Rules for the digital world
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:04:36 -0400

> > One only needs to ponder what the Hitler government would have been 
> > able to pull off...if it had had access to the kind of personal data that
> > is now stored at Google, Facebook and the NSA 

> There's an interesting book called IBM And The Holocaust that describes 
> the use of IBM punchcard systems and census data to aid in the 
> Holocaust. Not only to to crunch census data, but also cross referencing 
> records of governments and churches throughout occupied Europe and 
> solving difficult logistics problems to increase the efficiency of 
> deportation to concentration camps. 
> 
> http://monoskop.org/log/?p=3076 

Google and punchcards are handy, but not absolutely necessary for state
operatives with a lot of time on their hands. The Stasi created an
artisanal Facebook in the 1970s--check out this hand-drawn social network
graph from their archive.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140228/15025026393/you-know-who-else-collected-metadata-stasi.shtml 

jon

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