<nettime> Manuel Castells on Brazil

[Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com>]

From: nar@

https://www.adbusters.org/blogs/manuel-castells-brazil.html

Manuel Castells on Brazil
Institutions are heeding to the streets.
Adbusters, 01 July 2013


Leading expert on contemporary social movements born in the internet, 
the Spanish sociologist, Manuel Castells, says that driving the crisis 
in Brazil shows that there is hope to reconnect citizens and 
institutions. “Dilma is the first world leader,” he says, “to listen to 
the streets.”

Castells, 68, was in Brazil attending a conference series when protests 
by reducing bus fares started, in São Paulo. One of today's leading 
experts on social movements in the Internet age, he could not imagine 
that the whole country would be taken over by a wave of demonstrations 
that would become the most important political manifestation of 
Brazilian society in 20 years. “If you want change, only the Internet 
criticism is not enough. You need to become visible, challenge the 
established order and force a dialogue,” said the sociologist.

Castells analysed similar movements like the Arab Spring, Occupy the 
United States, the Outraged in Spain, and now comes the defence of 
Taksim Square in Turkey. With extensive and respected work on the role 
of new information technologies and communication, the sociologist says 
that the great strength of these movements is the absence of leaders and 
sees a depletion of the current model of representation. Author of 23 
books, he launches soon Outraged and Hope Network; Social Movements in 
the Internet Age(Zahar Publisher). Castells was a professor at the 
University of Berkeley, in California, for 24 years.

He currently lives in Barcelona, Spain, where he spoke to ISTOÉ by 
email, and he is a professor at the Open University of Catalonia and the 
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, in the United States.

    ISTOÉ – You sr. were in Brazil when the first protests took place 
in São Paulo. I could imagine that they would take this ratio?

    Manuel Castells – Nobody could. But what I imagined, and researched 
for several years, is that the crisis of political legitimacy and the 
ability to communicate through the internet and mobile devices lead to 
the possibility of spontaneous social movements that arise anytime and 
anywhere. Because there are reasons for outrage everywhere.

    ISTOÉ – Brazil has reduced much social inequality in recent years 
and has full employment. How to explain dissatisfaction of this size?

    Manuel Castells – The youth in São Paulo was explicit: “It's not 
just about cents, it is about our rights.” It is a cry of “enough!” It 
is against corruption, arrogance, and sometimes the brutality of its 
police and politicians.

    ISTOÉ – It makes sense to keep the streets if the problems of 
health and education cannot be solved quickly, as the bus fare?

    Manuel Castells – Firstly, the movement wants free transport 
because it states the right to mobility is a universal right.The 
transportation problems makes life in cities disgrace are a consequence 
of speculation, which builds a irrational municipality, and local 
planning bad, because of the subservience of the mayors and their teams 
to the interests of the real estate market, not the citizens. 
Furthermore, because of the mobilization, President Dilma Rousseff is 
also proposing new investments in health and education. How long it 
takes to get results, it's time to get started quickly.

    ISTOÉ – President Dilma was right to speak to the nation on TV, 
convene meetings with governors, mayors and protesters to propose a deal?

    Manuel Castells – Yes, she is the first world leader to watch and 
to listen to the demands of people in the streets. She showed that she 
is a true democrat, but she is being stabbed in the back by traditional 
politicians. José Serra’s Declarations (PSDB former governor criticized 
the initiatives announced by the president) are typical of the lack of 
accountability of politicians and misunderstanding the right people to 
decide. The political positions are not owned by politicians. They are 
paid by the citizens who elect them. And citizens will remember who said 
what in this crisis when the election comes.

    ISTOÉ – How to compare with the Brazilian movement that occurred in 
the rest of the world?

    Manuel Castells – There are million people protesting like that for 
weeks and months in countries around the world. In the United States, 
for example, over a thousand cities were occupied between September 2011 
and March 2012. The difference is that Brazil has a democratic president 
Dilma Rousseff and as a handful of truly democratic politicians such as 
Marina Silva, is accepting the right of citizens to express themselves 
outside the bureaucratic controlled channels. The true meaning of the 
Brazilian movement is: it shows there still hope to reconnect citizens 
and institutions, if there is goodwill on both sides.

    ISTOÉ – What is the crucial factor to the success of these 
movements started on the internet?

    Manuel Castells – it resonate the demands for a large number of 
people, there isn’t involvement of political leaders manipulating the 
situation. People who feel strong support each other networking as 
individuals, and not as masses that follow any flag. Each one has its 
own movement. The police brutality also helps to spread the movement 
through images on the Internet broadcast by mobile phones.

    ISTOÉ – Why so many protests end in looting and vandalism? How to 
prevent marginal take advantage of the movement?

    Manuel Castells – There is violence and vandalism in society. It is 
impossible to prevent them, although movements everywhere try to control 
them because they know that violence is the most destructive force of a 
social movement. Sometimes, in some countries, they are supported by 
police provocateurs creating violence to delegitimize the movement.

    ISTOÉ – How the police should act?

    Manuel Castells – Intervene selectively, carefully, professionally, 
only against the bullies and violent groups. Never, ever firing lethal 
weapons, and restraining them from hitting indiscriminately on peaceful 
protesters. Police is one of the reasons why people protest.

    ISTOÉ – Is the absence of leaders weakens the movement?

    Manuel Castells – Rather, it is the force of the movement. Everyone 
is their own leader.

    ISTOÉ – But does this not prevent the negotiation with the 
political elite?

    Manuel Castells – No, the proof is that the President Dilma 
Rousseff met with some representatives ofthe movement.

    ISTOÉ – What is the great strength and what is the great weakness 
of these movements?

    Manuel Castells – The great strength is that they are spontaneous, 
free, and festive. It is a celebration of freedom. The weakness is not 
theirs. The weakness is the stupidity and arrogance of the political 
class that is insensitive to demands autonomous citizens.

    ISTOÉ – In Brazil, political parties were banned demonstrations and 
are those who see there is a danger of a coup. Does this concern make 
any sense?

    Manuel Castells – There is no danger of a coup. The corrupt and 
undemocratic are already in power: they are the politicians.

    ISTOÉ – How to solve the crisis of representativeness of the 
political class?

    Manuel Castells – It will be solved with political reform, with a 
Constituent Assembly and with referendum. President Dilma Rousseff is 
absolutely right, but in that sense she will be destroyed by her own 
political base.

    ISTOÉ – These manifestations articulated through social networks 
demand a new form of citizen participation in decision-making processes 
of the State?

    Manuel Castells – Yes, this is the new form of political 
participation emerging everywhere. I analyse this world in my latest book.

    ISTOÉ – What is links among contemporary social movements?

    Manuel Castells – the use of the internet, presence in urban space, 
lack of leadership, autonomy, absence of fear, as well as coverage of 
the whole society and not just a group. Largely movements are led by 
youth and they are looking for a new democracy.

    ISTOÉ – The Occupy movement in the U.S. was defeated by the arrival 
of winter. What legacy has it left?

    Manuel Castells – it left new values, a new consciousness for most 
Americans.


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