noci on Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:49:29 +0200 (CEST) |
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Re: <nettime> Linux strikes back III |
Hardie wrote: Why can't fsfer's think of law and its organisation in ways other than proprietary/closed systems? Why do people who profess to be at the cutting edge, pushing Paul Keating's proverbial envelope, feel the need to hide behind old ways of thinking about law? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< because the rest of the world out there sadly does not function the same way as the open source community does? or is that just me overly simplifying things? I'd like to know more about the "ways other than proprietary/closed systems"-thinking. what's your idea? was that in your post or did I miss out on something? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Geer wrote: Stallman's position, as I understand it, is that he would have been happy to use something other than copyright to protect the freedom of free software, but that as far as he could tell, there was no other way. Maybe you could suggest one? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I second that, where is the new spirit? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Osinga wrote: But there is nothing against Cisco selling routers running Linux or Suse charging for CDs with Linux on it, as long as people get access to the source code of Cisco routers & Suse distributions. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Word! "making money from Linux distributions" [paraphrased; someone here said that..Myers!] is quite a wide expression. actually, you can get the whole Suse distribution right here: ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/current/ what they charge you for is the box, the DVDs/CDs, the documentation, the support (if ye want it and pay for it). Of course the GPLed software is the worm on the hook attracting dollar-stuffed fish, but buying a copy of Windows XP feels a bit different from buying a box copy of Suse. picture both acts in your head an you'll know what I mean. or not.. hurm... Confused! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Elloi wrote: ...if you want to use so-called legal system and IP property laws you become just one of the parties that help maintain the whole thing, enriching lawyers and "leaders" along the way. OS is created by many and the cause/ideology exploited by a small fraction of loud ones. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< again, what's the alternative? let them pick you apart because you deny fighting against them with their own (legal) tools? sounds heroic, but I don't believe these "parties" will stop lobbying against you simply because you've taken such a brave stance. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any trust in the legal system/IP industry either. I'm simply asking for that ethereal alternative vision which is somehow absent but at the same time subliminally present in this discussion, somehow. don't want to insult you either, but your message reminded me of utterings made by first-year-pseudo-leftist sociology students at the FU Berlin. ye know, in fact many of them have a bourgeois background that'd make you gasp for air if they'd ever admit on it. I simply don't get your line of thinking-- am I dumb or what? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hardie wrote: You see what I am trying to do is move or think about ways of moving the legal language beyond property and contract at a pace somewhat closer to the philosophical thinking or logics of the machine. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< hurm your message sounds interesting. what do you think could happen in praxis, though? how can the OS community react against "threats" such as Cisco's actions on these new lines of thinking? thinking about that Cisco fiasco: they do nothing but Warez- making money from selling software whose license agreement they've violated. .. .... .. . .. Ì.... .... ..................................................... ..................... - TEAM Linksys presents - . Ì................... . Ì... . ...... 802.11g Wi-Fi Router . ....Ì... ..................................................... .... Ì.. ... SUPPLIER: TEAM Linksys PROGRAM TYPE: RouterOS . ..... ....... CRACKER : TEAM CISCO PROTECTION : GPL . ..... ....... PACKAGER: TEAM CISCO RELEASE TYPE: RETAIL . ...... ...... ..................................................... ....... ..... SYS PLATFORM: ALL RELEASE DATE: 08-27-2003 . ........ ........ ..... LANGUAGE: ENGLISH ARCHIVE NAME: SYSAME60.R*. ........ .............FORMATS: HARDWARE RELEASE SIZE: Small Box ...... ..... ............................................................ ......... ...... ....................................................................... . .... RELEASE INFORMATION . ....................................................................... Well Well finally this fine piece of Hardware has been released to the public...: http://www.forbes.com/home/2003/10/14/cz_dl_1014linksys.html "It lets you hook computers together on a wireless Wi-Fi network, employing a high-speed standard called 802.11g. Aimed at home users, the $129 device has been a smash hit, selling 400,000 units in the first quarter of this year alone." For more product information please visit http://www.cisco.com ....................................................................... . .... INSTALL NOTES . ....................................................................... Unpack & Plug-In... RTFM you leech! Enjoy this fine release from TEAM Linksys :) ....................................................................... . .... TEAM Linksys AGREEMENTS . ....................................................................... Attention: Please read these terms carefully before using our release. Using our release indicates that you have read and accepted these agreements. If you do not agree to accept these terms, do not use our release or infomation from it. We may change the terms of this Agreement at any time. YOU MAY USE OUR RELEASE FOR EVALUATION PRUPOSES ONLY. WE WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR RELEASE. IF YOU LIKE THIS SOFTWARE, YOU'RE STRONGLY ADVISED TO CONFORM TO THE GPL. THE OSS COMMUNITY NEEDS SUPPORT FOR QUALITY PRODUCTS. YOU MAY NOT USE OUR RELEASE TO MAKE MONEY OR USE IT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSE. ....................................................................... . .... TEAM Linksys NEWS . ....................................................................... Wanna Join? Getting In Touch With Us If... - You are familiar with commercial protections (GPL,Dongle,etc...) - You can do keygen for generic license agreements - You can rip of the OS community without attracting lots of attention ....................................................................... . .... TEAM Linksys GREETS . ....................................................................... TEAM Linksys send GREETS to: All groups who bring releases of high quality to the scene. ....................................................................... . .... CONTACT INFORMATION . ....................................................................... EMAIL.......: [ Linksys@hotmail.com ] ... ... ... Any request for technical support ........ ........ ........ or missing files will be ignored Ì.......¦ ..........Ì.......¦ so dont waste your/our time! ...¦ ... ...¦ Ì.. ...¦ ... ... ....Ì... ...¦... .... ...................................... Ì....... ...¦ Ì.. Ì....... .. TEAM Linksys SINCE 2001 ........ ... ...¦........ . ...................................... ... ...¦...¦ Ì.. ... ...¦ .. . LAST UPDATED ON 07/19/2002 ... Ì...Ì........¦ ... Ì... . ......................................Ì...¦ Ì..¦ ........ Ì...¦ Ì..¦ .. ..... ... ... ..... ... ·-.....-*(TEAM Linksys200)*..--· right i'm going back to lurk-mode now.. i'm not an expert in any of these issues (but you know that already from my post :-) but this discussion really struck a nerve with me, especially as this is only the tip of an underlying iceberg comprised of more topics than just OS vs IP etc. this whole distributed creativity thing is new to me, y'know.. :P greets, maxd # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net