N Bookchin on Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:50:50 +0100 (CET) |
[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]
<nettime> Interview with Isabelle Massu |
Hi nettimers, I know its hard to think about much right now except for the actions of the axis of evil: Blair, Bush and Aznar, but for a diversion, here is an interview I did with freedom I mean french artist and activist Isabelle Massu in the fall for 2002 for a spanish journal Red Digital You can read it in spanish with illustrations here: http://reddigital.cnice.mecd.es/3/entrevista_comp_2.html best, natalie Isabelle Massu: Between Two Worlds: An Interview with Natalie Bookchin Isabelle Massu (isa@aux2mondes.org ) is an artist currently working on a Net art project called aux2mondes. She has a longstanding involvement with public art and alternative media. In 1995, she collaborated with Margaret Tedesco on a year-long collaboration with a group of homeless people from San Francisco's Coalition on Homelessness. Parlor Game: a Popular Version was a series of board games depicting the city rules and regulations San Francisco's homeless had to bypass or confront in order to survive. Six different board games represented the different issues and branches of the association such as Housing - Not Borders and Shelter Outreach. The games were displayed as posters on Market Street in downtown San =46rancisco, and as an insert in the coalition's newspaper "Street Sheet" (www.sf-homeless-coalition.org). In 1996 Massu joined the French feminist association Les P=E9n=E9lopes (www.penelopes.org) which had, at the time, the only significant Internet presence representing the feminist movement in France. They produced a newsletter and a Web TV program offering world news on women's issues and feminist analyses of neo-liberal globalization. Les P=E9n=E9lopes is more than a media outlet; Massu traveled throughout Africa, Europe, and Latin America giving workshops to women on media literacy and the strategic use of new technologies. In 1999 Massu became a member of La Compagnie, (www.la-compagnie.org), an artist collective and an exhibition space in the heart of downtown Marseille, in a neighborhood called Belsunce. The majority of Marseille's substantial North African residents live and work in Belsunce, which has, since the nineteenth century, received immigrants from across the Mediterranean. Belsunce and Marseille are both currently the targets of local and European Union funded "rehabilitation" initiatives, the latter known as the Eurom=E9diterran=E9e Project. Approximately one and a half billion Euros are being invested in Marseille with the hopes of transforming the city into a booming commercial center and a tourist attraction. This is the largest amount ever given to a European city by the EU, and the funds are being allocated for downtown real estate development and restoration projects, aimed at attracting international investors and businesses. Downtown is being "cleaned up," pricing out its current occupants to make room for a new population of professionals, businesses, and tourists. A new high-speed train linking Paris to Marseille has been installed. Marseille's considerable immigrant population and its rampant unemployment and poverty are an aftermath of another era's commercial (and more overtly racist) enterprise, French colonialism. During the height of colonialism in the nineteenth century, Marseille, nicknamed `Porte de l'Orient,' flourished as the main port for travel and trade to the French colonies. Throughout the twentieth century, immigrants, primarily from the Maghreb countries of Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco, were recruited to France as "guest" workers. Men were shipped over without their families and offered deplorable living conditions to discourage settlement when the work ran out. Recruitment and immigration accelerated in the 1960s during France's economic boom and into the 1970s, when an estimated two million North Africans immigrated to France, many remaining in Marseille. With the end of colonialism, activities around the port of Marseille began to dwindle, ushering in widespread unemployment. The end of the Algerian war in 1962 brought massive migration from the newly independent country, including about 150,000 pieds-noirs, French citizens who had settled in Algeria, returning to their homeland. Many of the guest workers who had stayed on after their work had finished were permitted by the French government to send for their families. With the sudden increase in the population, unemployment and poverty, already a problem in Marseille, became endemic. The middle class began to abandon the city, leaving the poor and the immigrant population to deal with its crumbling infrastructure. In 1999, Massu her current collaborators inherited La Compagnie from a collective of artists who had previously run the organization for five years. The new collective began to put considerable effort into defining their role and position in relation to the uneasy situation in Belsunce. Their goal has been to bring diverse cultural activities to the neighborhood, but they are also very cautious of the role their existence can play in accelerating the gentrification process. They have initiated, supported and developed a variety of projects including aux2mondes.With aux2mondes Massu and her collaborators are developing an on-line game and archive exposing the gentrification strategies of the city and the current situation in Belsunce.The rules of the game will be inspired by city and state political rules and regulations. They are planning the release date to coincide with the inauguration of a new public library in Belsunce, a major event and symbol of the "rehabilitation" project. Natalie Bookchin: What brought you to live and work in Marseille? Isabelle Massu: I lived in San Francisco for 10 years. In 1996, I decided it was time to return home, and spent a year looking for places to live. I am originally from Paris and didn't want to go back to a place that felt so familiar. I visited a friend in Marseille and fell in love with the city. Part of my attraction was that, like San =46rancisco, Marseille is a cosmopolitan port city, and although it is =46rance, it doesn't look and feel like the rest of the country. Mediterranean culture is very present. It is a very intense city, partly due to its geographical positioning at the edge of the continent. After all the orderliness and quaintness of San Francisco, I was looking for a city with more of an edge. Marseille is the second biggest city in France, yet had been generally disregarded by the French government until recently. It is the only city left in =46rance where the downtown is poor and the immigrant population, the majority of which is Algerian, lives in the center of the city. The two other large French cities, Paris and Lyon, have already "rehabilitated" and gentrified their centers, which are now richer and whiter, and the immigrants have been pushed to the suburbs. When I came to Marseille I moved to Belsunce, a small neighborhood sandwiched between the main train station, the entrance to the city's freeway, and the port. Belsunce brought back familiar feelings and sensations of growing up in the suburbs of Paris. When I was six years old, my stepfather decided to move to the projects, which was typical of a French proletarian family in need of a bargain apartment. The projects had just been constructed, and were being sold as attractive, new, and modern. This was the 1970s and the projects were also being used for temporarily relocating some of the newly arriving Algerian population. We were in the minority as so called Fran=E7ais de souche, (roughly translated as "old stock or native French). This was the first time I encountered immigrants, and I witnessed a lot of racism. The immigrants were seen as intruders. Their religious practices, which were completely unfamiliar to us, were seen as evil and barbarian. From the dead lamb in the cellar to the henna on my friend's hands and feet, I had a lot of questions that were never answered by my family or school. France's role in Algeria was not discussed. We learned about World War II, but never a word was mentioned about what amounted to almost a century of French colonization. No one talked about the protectorates, yet the schools were suddenly filled with kids from these places. Returning to Belsunce in France in 1996 reminded me of the confusion I felt as a child, and I began to think about the situation as an adult. I felt very comfortable in Marseille, feeling that I simultaneously belonged and didn't belong. I knew there was something in this that I wanted to investigate, but I didn't know exactly what form that investigation would take. NB: You left France when you were twenty-two and spent ten years, much of your adult life, as an immigrant in San Francisco. Now you are back in France, and carry an American and a French passport. You have worked in activist organizations as an artist, and in artist collectives as an activist. You are attracted to Marseille as a city located between the north and the south, between France and North Africa. Your project aux2mondes resides between physical and virtual spaces. It seems that you value the "in-between" not as a transitional space, but a place to locate oneself and one's work. Can you talk about your interest in the "in-between?" IM: I don't know if it's an interest as much as a way of being in the world, something that I have had to be all my life. I don't want to be too psychoanalytical, but I will say that the first "in-between" was between my mother and my father, who divorced when I was very young and lived in different places. It was between the two of them that I really found myself, and still do. I have always been drawn to the interstices, whether it is between places or identities. To be "in-between" is to not have a closed-in, secure, or fixed position. Maybe it's not a very determined way of being in the world, but for me, any other position is too constraining. Being fixed in one position does not allow you to see the other side, whereas being "in-between" allows for movement and insight. And of course one can talk about the strategy of the "in-between" in aux2mondes. The project is based in Belsunce, where most people are between two worlds, between Algeria and Marseille, between the secular state of France and the religious state of Algeria, between being welcomed as a citizen and being an illegal alien. But the in-between aspect of the project really lies in how it structures and defines public space. aux2mondes looks at both the limits and possibilities of physical spaces and the virtual spaces. We are using the Net as a public space to reinvent situations, propose alternatives, and denounce the progress of gentrification. aux2mondes needs both spaces: the physical space of La Compagnie is a direct and critical link with the people who are threatened by the gentrification. NB: Marseille seems to be trying to erase Belsunce. If the local population is made invisible, there is no need to address them. Can you talk about how aux2mondes works against this process? IM: The city, the state, and the newspapers praise the expansion of urban renewal plans. The process is said to be socially, economically, and culturally enriching, but for whom? The rhetoric is always addressed to a privileged population, as if the population being displaced did not exist. Politicians describe this center as the "throbbing heart that it once was" before the arrival of the immigrants. The politician's goal is revealed through their vocabulary: rehabilitation, restitution, reanimation, reorientation, reinforcement, resurrection, and above all re-conquest. We intend to give a more realistic picture of the so-called "enhancement" of a city. By collectively writing another story, we reiterate the universal droit de cit=E9. This is in some respects how we are depicting the situation as a game in aux2mondes: like most popular games, we are recreating a real situation. Think of Monopoly, Sim City, Europa, games involving commerce, city planning, colonization. In aux2mondes, the city and state political rules and regulations are our sources of inspiration. We are inventing another site, inventing a "counter" Belsunce,another Belsunce, another public space, one where we could strategically play with equal opportunities to win or lose, one where voices could be heard, a public space where one could interfere, exchange, network, a non-static net within the net. It is the Net, and it is fluid, not fixed in space or time, allowing us to continue the story we are experiencing here, and to invent other stories, strategies, and challenges, as the gentrification process continues here and everywhere. "the population in downtown is for the most part people with a very low income; we need to crush this phenomena." la Marseillaise (local newspaper) 24.05.96 NB:You are now in your second year of working on your project, yet do not seem to be in any hurry to publish anything on the Net. Can you talk a bit about your work process? IM: The whole first year we did extensive research into the historical, social, and political situation in Belsunce. We have been conducting workshops and interviewing people who are or have lived in the neighborhood. For a year, Martine Derain and I have been working with a group of local women. Other members of the collective are working on other projects and workshops, such as Johanne Larrouz=E9 who organizes workshops for kids and adults that relate to the events taking place in our space. She and David Bouvard, another member of the collective, are working on a mini festival of Scopitone films for next year. Scopitone films were the 1960s precursor to today's music videos. They were distributed on 16 mm film with sound and shown on a Scopitone film jukebox, found in bars across France. Joanne and David are focusing on scopitones made for immigrants. Most of them were about working hard in France, leaving the country, wanting to go back or wanting to remain. A lot of them had strong sexual connotations, perhaps in an attempt to entertain lonely male workers who were brought over without wives and families. Debates and lectures at La Compagnie often address problems in the neighborhood, such as the local economy, as well as national and international issues such as rehabilitation projects in other cities and how other collectives and associations work with immigrants. We also have an artist residency program, which tries to introduce an outside perspective on the situation. Martine and Dalila Madjhoub, two members of La Compagnie, are currently working on a proposal for a public art piece in Belsunce in collaboration with two French architects. Their extensive research on city politics will be added to the database of aux2mondes, as will the work of the others mentioned above. We are calling the archive and database of aux2mondes "The Library." It will mirror the "real" library currently under construction, which is viewed as a major symbol of the gentrification process in Belsunce. Its strategic geographical position is supposed to placate the local population. However, it will also attract students from nearby and newly constructed universities, which are attracting a younger generation to the area. They will probably be among the first new settlers in Belsunce. Therefore, as most locals would agree, this library is not really for them. "When you go to Aix Street, they give you low income housing for around 3000frs. What does it mean? It's not the poor people who are going to live there, especially with "Marseille-habitat". If you want an apartment they'll know where to find you one, a one room in Belsunce or a 6 room apartment in the north of Marseille. The choice of course is quickly made!" "La Cit=E9 de La Musique, they did not build it for us. The minimum you need to pay for classes for your kid is 400frs!! I'm telling you, this is not for us=8A The library, I don't think it's gonna be for us either, I really don't think so!" Fatima Rhazi, resident of Belsunce, 2001 NB:Can you talk about the workshops you have been running with the women from the neighborhood? IM: The workshops came partly out of my feminist experience, and from working in a neighborhood where public space is mainly inhabited and controlled by men. Women appear primarily in private spaces, mostly at home. What really stood out for me is their invisibility. Muslim and Algerian women are doubly invisible: they are invisible as Muslims and Algerians in France, and invisible as women in Muslim culture. The women would come to La Compagnie with their kids. The men from the neighborhood would come and go, but some women kept on coming back. We began to develop friendships, while simultaneously developing a series of workshops. They wanted to learn how to use the Internet. It seemed that after one year what was most important to them had to do with communication: email and forums. The Net became a way for them to have a voice and to access information on their own, without having to rely solely on television or reports of the outside world by the men. For some, the interest was to feel closer to their home country, and they would participate in online forums dedicated to Mzabite culture (a group well known for its puritanism in Algeria). The anonymity in this context allowed "feminist" voices to come out. These were forums where it appeared that only men were chatting, but, as would happen in an ideal public space, they were suddenly filled with women's voices, challenging misogynist beliefs in a very direct manner. Later on, as they became more at ease with the use of computers, the women started to write their own stories of their arrival in Belsunce. They trusted that their voices would be heard but their identities never revealed-some of them are illegal aliens in France. We will make audio and text material from the workshops available in aux2monde's Library. NB: Tell me about the funding of aux2mondes. Are your funders aware of your intentions? IM: We have been given fairly substantial funds from the city and the Ministry of Culture despite the fact that Marseille doesn't have much money for culture and the arts. I believe that this has to do, in part, with our strategic location in Belsunce and our potential as artists in the neighborhood to placate the population. Politicians believe that if people are distracted by culture they wont need to dwell on the unpleasantness of their situation. The cultural events are supposed to act as a crutch, to compensate for what the city is not offering them-a decent education, parks, and playgrounds. None of this exists in Belsunce. In a neighborhood which has been labeled as disreputable, La Compagnie bridges the different populations throughout the various events we organize in Belsunce. As artists, we have to be very diligent about what we are offering in this context. We need to constantly look very critically at our own position and the one placed on us by the government, which believes it is useful to have a public art space in this "targeted" neighborhood. We are not fooling ourselves into thinking that we can restrain gentrification that has been happening for over ten years. But at the same time, we are not willing to fully satisfy our funder's expectations, and we refuse to permanently occupy the position they outline for us, though at times this position is unavoidable. For the most part we have been free to do as we please, but I suppose aux2mondes will trigger a lot of political debate once it is online. NB: Why do you assume that gentrification is inevitable? Is there any attempt, from your group or others, to resist the rehabilitation project, which could prove to be disastrous to the hundreds of immigrants living and working in the neighborhood? This rehabilitation project has been studied by sociologists, urban planners, and the city for quite some time now, and has convinced much of the population that it is being done in their interest. And some of it probably is, but lies and promises are being used successfully as strategic weapons. For example, the city is offering families the same rent to move into the projects on the edge of the city as they now pay to live in Belsunce. This could be seen as a good opportunity for some, but others, like old and single men living in cheap hotels (a substantial portion of Belsunce's population), do not want to be displaced or isolated one from one another. The working population does not want to have to commute long distances to work in downtown Marseille. Why should they have to be the ones to move to the projects? Resisting an underhanded, tricky government is more challenging then one that is blatantly violent. Some groups are organizing to inform people of their rights as citizens and tenants, but there is not much being done for the illegal immigrants. It is difficult to fight for people's right to stay here when technically they do not have such rights. Our form of resistance is at times made up of small daily gestures. We are offering a critical perspective, and that is in itself an act of resistance. aux2mondes has no pretenses about changing the world, and locates itself in between activism and art. But from both perspectives the intention remains the same: making its participants visible. That is our plot in the game. www.aux2mondes.org The first part of the project will be on-line October 2003. Edited by Claire Barliant and Natalie Bookchin # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net