<nettime> (rooting|routing) rhizome digest [pope, tribe x2, broeckmann]

["nettime's_gardener" <nettime@bbs.thing.net>]

"Ivan Pope" <ivan@ivanpope.com>
     Re: RHIZOME_RAW: <nettime> rhizome or <rhizome> nettime or...
Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>
     Re: RHIZOME_RAW: <nettime> rhizome or <rhizome> nettime or...
Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>
     Re: FW: <nettime> r h  i   z    o     m      e   digest <...>
Andreas Broeckmann <abroeck@transmediale.de>
     Fwd: Re: rooting Rhizome

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Ivan Pope" <ivan@ivanpope.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: <nettime> rhizome or <rhizome> nettime or...
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:10:32 -0000

from: Are Flagan <areflagan@artpanorama.com>

> PS: Did anyone even bother to mention that it's all free on Fridays? See
> you at happy hour.

Maybe someone could explain what it all means. What is free on Fridays?
Access to Rhizome.org? Ability to mail to the list? Ability to submit to the
archive? Somethings else? Some of the above? None of the above?

Does this mean we will get a flood of emails on Friday?

And, how many members does the Rhizome list now have?

Cheers,
Ivan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:02:54 -0500
From: Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: <nettime> rhizome or <rhizome> nettime or...

At 01:10 PM 1/23/2003 +0000, Ivan Pope wrote:

>From: Are Flagan <areflagan@artpanorama.com>
>
> > PS: Did anyone even bother to mention that it's all free on Fridays? See
> > you at happy hour.
>
>Maybe someone could explain what it all means. What is free on Fridays?
>Access to Rhizome.org? Ability to mail to the list? Ability to submit to the
>archive? Somethings else? Some of the above? None of the above?

free fridays means free access to the site, but not the ability to post or 
to subscribe to the email lists.

>Does this mean we will get a flood of emails on Friday?

no flood.

>Ivan
 <..i.>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:34:46 -0500
From: Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: FW: <nettime> r h  i   z    o     m      e   digest <...>

On January 22, Amy Alexander Wrote:

>Before Rhizome went subscription-only, people could stumble upon its texts
>by looking up topics in a search engine. This was useful not only for new
>media people, but also for members of the general public - it was possible
>for people to discover the new media art community and its texts without
>being aware of them beforehand.
>
>But now, the texts and projects that have been contributed to Rhizome over
>the years have disappeared from Google (and I presume this applies to all
>engines' listings).  So a huge chunk of new media culture has disappeared
>from public view and public access. As a result, new media art culture
>becomes largely a closed circuit, able to be traveled only by those
>already within it.

Yeah, this is a problem.

>Perhaps this points to the problem of centralization more than anything
>else, but I thought it was worth contemplating, and asking - how can this
>be remedied?

We hope to remedy this, so texts and art on Rhizome come up in Google 
searches, etc., but it's tricky. In the meantime, we do allow (and 
encourage) people to link directly to texts and art in the Rhizome archives 
without being members. So if you have a link on your  site to a work in the 
ArtBase, people can follow the link without having to sign up. From there, 
they have to sign up as members to navigate further within Rhizome. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:09:06 +0100
From: Andreas Broeckmann <abroeck@transmediale.de>
Subject: Fwd: Re: rooting Rhizome

At 11:34 AM 1/23/2003 +0100, Andreas Broeckmann wrote:

dear mark,

just a word of support - you know i have had my criticism of rhizome, 
but i really don't think that the bashing you and the project are 
getting on nettime is fair. i don't know what to say publically, 
because i have not been a subscriber for a while and have rarely used 
the artbase, so i feel a bit distant, also because i cannot estimate 
the value that the project actually has for people.

i think that the attempt at building a light institution that serves 
the art community is worthwhile, and that in a way you may even have 
known that this wave of criticism would happen around this time. i 
would really hope that there are enough people who can help you 
support rhizome and keep it going as what it is - an important 
channel and resource for the media art community.

the fee is a real problem. believe it or not, but like many people 
outside the US i have no credit card (the only time i had one was 
when they were free in the UK, during the hot-air-thatcher boom of 
the late 80s) and am still very much part of the 'cash economy', so a 
small payment of 5 usd is a hassle. as you know, for many people in 
poorer parts of the world it is prohibitive. but maybe you thought 
about that and have mechanisms in place to alleviate that.

anyway, if you feel that i should say something along these lines on 
nettime, i'd happily do that. otherwise, 'halt die Ohren steif', and 
keep up the spirit!

best regards,

-a


date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:26:03 -0500
to: Andreas Broeckmann <abroeck@transmediale.de>
from: Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>
subject: Re: rooting

dear andreas:

thanks very much for your kind words. any public support you can 
provide would be greatly appreciated.

i did expect loud criticism of our new policy, and in discussions 
with the rhizome board i initially advocated against requiring 
members to make a contribution. it doesn't surprise me that many in 
the net art scene object to our new policy on principle. but as i 
thought about it more, i became convinced that rhizome could not 
survive in its current form without substantial financial support 
from its community. the alternative would have been to go into some 
form of hibernation--shut down all but the most efficent online 
programs, lay off the staff, close the office. hibernation remains an 
option if this new policy fails. or somebody else will create 
something new to take rhizome's place. but despite the criticism i 
think it is going to work.

by keeping the fee low, offering a free 30 day introductory grace 
period and making access to the site free on fridays, we hope to 
remain relatively inclusive while establishing a financial basis for 
sustainability. i do realize that even $5 per year is prohibitively 
expensive for some, such as people who live in countries like 
argentina where the currency is very weak against the dollar, and 
even for some artists and students in places like london and berlin. 
we are planning to ask universities, art schools and arts 
organizations to sign up as institutional members so their students, 
faculty and staff can gain free access as well. we've already had 
substantial interest in this, but need to do some further work to 
make this function on a technological level.

the hassle and difficulty of making a contribution are clearly also a 
major barrier. as a point of clarification, you don't need a credit 
card to make a gift. you can sign up for a paypal account without a 
credit card. or you can post a money order or even a five dollar 
bill. we also hope to set up an account at a german or other european 
bank to facilitate transfer payments, but haven't had time to look 
into it yet.

thanks again for your sympathies. please feel free to quote any of the 
above.

best,

mark

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net