Ivo Skoric on Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:04:59 +0200 (CEST)

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<nettime> ivogram [x11]: ny5, axis, bosnia, book, anem, srpska, stalin, etc.

"Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
     NY5 reduced to NY1
     Axis of Evil (revisited)
     Re: Fw: Book Review
     Belgrade women refused passage to Srebrenica by Republika Srpska police
     50 hours
     Stalin's Victory
     Regarding the NY5
     Re: Kostunica convenes Supreme Defense Council...
     Re: Zoran Lilic: "Cannot testify"

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:41:40 -0400
Subject: NY5 reduced to NY1

The fate of 5 NY tresspassers arrested under the Patriot Act is as 

Igor, the b92 journalists, and his two friends Ozren and Zeljko 
ended up paying $60 fine each - which is slightly more than a 
parking ticket in NYC - and 1 year probation. If they do not commit 
any crimes in that year, this incident will be expunged from their 
record. In a way, that's happy ending.

Ozren is now trying to get their video-tapes back from NYPD.

Biba, that signed that she wished to be deported, was probably 
deported as soon as she got money for the plane ticket - but I don't 
have an exact proof of that.

Tino is still in Midlesex immigration detention facility awaiting trial. 
And he will possibly be represented by AFSC affiliated attorneys. 
The latest rumor I've heard was that he got a green card on lottery.


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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:46:42 -0400
Subject: Axis of Evil (revisited)

Iraq, North Korea, Libya, China and Israel are joined by the U.S. in 
being the only countries opposed to formation of the International 
Criminal Court for crimes against humanity. George W. Bush 
stands shoulder to shoulder with Saddam Hussein in this hall of 

Slobodan Milosevic sincerely believes that he is not responsible for 
his deeds, that he had no trouble demanding to be vigorously 
carried out by his underlings. He, instead, maintains that both 
those who supported and those who opposed him are responsible, 
because they either let him, or left him with no other choice. He 
simply refuses to be held accountable for anything that he did.

That infantile, sociopathic position is shared by John Negroponte, 
the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, and his superiors in 
their threat to shut down peacekeeping operations in Bosnia with a 
rare Security Council veto if they are not given what they want: the 
immunity for U.S. servicemen from the world's first permanent war 
crimes tribunal, due to come into existence on July 1.

Why would the U.S. need or want such shameful immunity? Does 
U.S. administration believe that they are above the international 
law? What is it so horrible they are hiding, that they are ready to 
risk the renewal of ethnic hostility in a war ravaged small European 
country in order to protect it?

Kenneth Nichols, an ex-US Marine, will burn his U.S. passport in 
front of the U.S. Consulate in Amsterdam on July 1, in a symbolic 
renunciation of U.S. citizenship, in what appears to be the first 
such act in history for a birth citizen of the United States. He is 
currently seeking political asylum in Holland, the country 
threatened by the U.S. Hague Invasion Act. Nichols is accusing 
the U.S. of grave violations of human rights, particularly in 
connection with the deliberate use of DU in the Gulf War (in which 
he was a combatant), despite the knowledge of the damage it 
causes, and in connection with the use of experimental drugs on 
military personel without informed consent (of which Nichols is a 
victim himself, losing ability to produce children).
Related web sites:

Is this a nightmare the U.S. government lawyers want to protect 
their clients from? But what is going to happen to international 
justice if politicians from rich and powerful nations are allowed to go 
unpunished for their deeds, while only those from small, 'rogue' 
nations are held accountable?

Ivo Skoric

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:44:31 -0400

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
from:           	PSpees@aol.com
date sent:      	Fri, 28 Jun 2002 21:51:39 EDT


WHAT:  Rally to protest the abuse of power by the US government in the 
Security Council, jeopardizing peackeeping in Bosnia and sabotaging the 
world's first permanent International Criminal Court.

WHEN:  Sunday, June 30th, 2:30-4:30 pm, just before Security 
Council convenes (at 4 pm) to discuss the renewal of the 
peacekeeping operation in Bosnia.  

WHERE:  On the sidewalk outside the United Nations 
headquarters in New York, gathering at 44th Street and 1st 

WHY:  In the past weeks, the US government has been exerting enormous 
pressure on Security Council members to grant immunity to peacekeepers  from 
the jurisdiction of the new International Criminal Court, which will come 
into existence on July 1st.  The Court will be able to hold individuals 
accountable for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes.  The 
international community agreed when the treaty was drafted not to allow such 

The US effort is against international law and threatens the independence and 
fairness of a Court designed to address the kind of atrocities committed 
throughout the last century by the likes of Hitler, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, 
Idi Amin, Pinochet, Milosevic, the list goes on.

The US may get its way by threatening to use its veto, if this immunity 
language is not included, to terminate the peacekeeping mission in Bosnia 
that will expire by midnight on Sunday

We need your support on Sunday to give Security Council members going into 
the meeting a clear message that they cannot cave into this kind of blackmail.

PLEASE JOIN US!  Please also forward this to any networks in New York that 
might be interested.  We have little time to organize and make our voices 

For more information please call Jayne at 917-579-4398.

IN THIS. Please call +1 (212) 745-9334 for the Ambassador's office 
or +1 (212) 745-9200 if this mailbox is full.  

For more information contact:
Jayne Stoyles
Coalition for the International Criminal Court
mobile: (917) 579-4398
New York, NY

Ivo Skoric
19 Baxter Street
Rutland VT 05701

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:14:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Fw: Book Review

Where did this critic live for the past 12 years? On Mars? Even 
Bosnian Serbs of Republika Srpska never called themselves 
"Yugoslavs". In fact according to the last former Yugoslavia's 
census 9% of population declared themselves Yugoslavs, but they 
were mostly Serbs in Slovenia and Croatia, military personnel in 
Montenegro and Macedonia, and government employees in 
Belgrade. Only some children from mixed marriages in Bosnia 
adopted the Yugoslav nationality - but statistically large majority of 
such children adopted nationality of one of the parents. Sarajevan 
Emir Kusturica calls himself Yugoslav. But in Belgrade. Tom 
Shone would need a dental job if he called somebody in Sarajevo, 
who survived the siege laid by a Yugoslav Army general, Ratko 
Mladic, a Yugoslav. Would he come to the U.S. in 1800s and write 
about those fine Englishmen that fought so well in their Revolution? 
It is for his own good that he learns that crucial distinction.

to:             	brigall@yahoo.co.uk
copies to:      	c.mateo@verizon.net, FMJerbich32@email.msn.com, Jkresnik@juno.com,
  	sutramagazin@msn.com, Raguz@aol.com, fmustac@timespapers.com,
  	stecak@earthlink.com, tomislav.sunic@zg.hinet.hr, Jndryan@mindspring.com,
  	dizytocro@aol.com, JKraljic@email.msn.com, Dubrovnik5@aol.com,
  	ostrec@aol.com, NeArmitra@aol.com, Oretitan@hotmail.com, robnsanja@aol.com,
  	ruksj@aol.com, Croam@msn.com, Hercgovka1@aol.com, xsive@rogers.com,
  	Miseldunaj@cs.com, RJVL@erols.com, Feldwoj2@slu.edu, Pavuna@bluewin.ch,
date sent:      	Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:23:59 -0700
subject:        	Fw: Book Review
from:           	"Gerard , Hilda Foley" <hmfgsf@juno.com>

The review mentioned was printed in the L.A. Times Book Review section by
the UK Telegraph film critic, so I sent my short letter to both
newspapers. It is not a big deal, but I just could not resist replying to
such stupidity. 

--------- Forwarded message ----------
from: Gerard , Hilda Foley <HMFGSF@juno.com>
to: dtletters@telegraph.co.uk
date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:14:54 -0700
subject: Book Review

Dear Editor:

In his review of "Sundance Sarajevo" film critic Tom Shone writes about
Sarajevo "....You mean like figuring out why the Yugoslavs, having
survived the world's longest siege in modern history,  ..." 
I don't believe the inhabitants of Sarajevo would appreciate being called
"Yugoslavs". They are Bosnians, of the internationally recognized country
of Bosnia-Herzegovina and it was the Yugoslavs, meaning Serbs, who were
doing the besieging of Bosnia's capital Sarajevo for four terrible years.


Hilda M. Foley
National Federation of Croatian Americans
13272 Orange Knoll
Santa Ana, Ca 92705, USA
714 832-0289 

Ivo Skoric
1773 Lexington Ave
New York NY 10029

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:14:40 -0400

One of the biggest problems of democracies is that their legislative 
bodies are not always the most progressive institutions. They often 
and neccessary reflect the median of society. Take U.S. Congress 
for example. Serbian parliament is therefore neither an exception 
nor a surprise to me. ANEM on the other hand is one of the most 
progressive structures in Serbia. And I believe they shall continue 
to fight so that media people get more control over their media.

date sent:      	Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:37:37 +1000
send reply to:  	International Justice Watch Discussion List
from:           	geert lovink <geert@DESK.NL>

ANEM press release


BELGRADE, July 10, 2002 - The Information and Culture Committee of the
Serbian Parliament yesterday rejected an ANEM-proposed amendment to the
Broadcast Bill, which would have limited state influence over the formation
of the Broadcast Agency Council by giving civil society groups the right to
nominate an additional member to the Council.

Under the Bill submitted by the government to parliament, four of the nine
members of the Council would be nominated by the governments of Serbia and
its northern province of Vojvodina, and four by the so-called civil society
groups - university rectors; church and religious communities; broadcasters,
journalists, film and theatre artists, and composers; and local NGOs and
civil associations dealing with freedom of speech, ethnic minorities and
children's rights. The eight members would then nominate a ninth, from

The original proposal drafted with the support of the Council of Europe and
the OSCE envisaged a Broadcast Agency Council with 15 members, only two of
whom would be nominated by the Serbian and Vojvodina governments. The
Serbian government submitted this draft to parliament, only to then withdraw
it and alter the text overnight. Through its amendment, the Association of
Independent Electronic Media (ANEM) sought to strike a balance between those
with the right to nominate members to the Council. ANEM proposed that the
Serbian parliament, which already has the right to vote on all eventual
candidates, give up one nomination in favour of the association of film and
theatre artists and composers. This association would then be able to
nominate its own candidate instead of sharing the right with the
associations of public broadcasters and journalists.

The amendment was eventually rejected by five votes to two, with one

ANEM is astonished that media and journalists, that contributed greatly to
the peaceful and democratic changes in Serbia, are refused the right to
nominate even one representative to a body that will in fact regulate the
field in which they work. This is perhaps the clearest indicator of the way
the state and the ruling coalition view media today.

With this decision, the Serbian Parliament will almost certainly adopt a
Bill that will allow the state to wield excessive influence over the
formation of the Broadcast Agency Council. Bearing in mind the Council's
considerable powers, such influence could seriously compromise its
independence. Legislation once seen as a true and essential break from the
authoritarian past has unfortunately become the latest example of the
authorities' unwillingness to fully democratise broadcasting and relinquish
its grip on the media.

ANEM would like to reiterate its support for a number of provisions left
within the Bill, in particular the planned transformation of the state
broadcaster, Radio Television Serbia, into a public service.

Veran Matic

ANEM Chairman

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:18:46 -0400
Subject: Belgrade women refused passage to Srebrenica by Republika Srpska police
Srpska police

Here is what I gathered from today's conversation with my wife 
around 5 pm (11 pm in Bosnia). She was in the car somewhere 
close to Niksic, so our conversation was subject to vagaries of 
wireless signal in high Montenegrin mountains, on her way from 
Srebrenica (http://balkansnet.org/srebrenica.html), where she 
attended the sad seventh anniversary of the massacres. Never 
Forget was made courtesy of Republika Srpska police that 
provided 2000 cops to 'secure' the visitors: victims, survivors of 
massacres, former neighbors, those who were not reduced to a 
couple of bags of body parts, but rather just 'cleansed' from the 
neighborhood. Local men stayed at home behind curtained 
windows. Shame? Guilt? Caution? In a very moving speech 
Bosnian Reis-Ulema quoted Martin Luther-King "...and I also 
remember the silence of friends." Republika Srpska police refused 
passage to a bus full of women from Belgrade, mostly belonging to 
the Women In Black group. So, they were not able to attend. This 
is not the first time that Republika Srpska authorities are most 
vigilant against peace activists from Serbia. Indira is going to give 
full report on this trip at Raccoon Space on Friday, July 19 at 6 pm. 
For directions, check http://balkansnet.org/prostor.html.


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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:00:53 -0400
Subject: 50 hours

Journalists are often detained as spies or terrorists in various rogue 
regimes. A couple of days ago an associate from Belgrade's B92, 
here as a tourist, was arrested and detained for 50 hours for being 
in a party of 5 people, 3 of which (but not him) jumped over a fence. 
Eventually, they were charged with criminal tresspassing and are 
due to appear in court on July 22nd. Apparently, they wanted to 
take a picture of the Statue of Liberty...

...and the fence was in Brooklyn, and the arresting officers were 
NYPD, not Belgrade police. They were interrogated by FBI, since 
they were obvious terrorists: young male foreigners, with cameras 
and attitude. FBI asked them whether they knew how to fly an 
airplane (no), whether they were Muslims (no, they were Serbs, 
which is perhaps as non-Muslim as you can go unless you want to 
be an Israeli), and other pertinent questions. Finally, prosecutor 
asked for a $10,000 bail to be set, which the judge, fortunatelly for 
the sake of sanity, laughingly dismissed.


ps - Since, obviously, the NYPD has plenty of time to waste on 
frivolous cases, I hope they shall make progress on some more 
real crimes, like the backpack that was stolen from me on Tuesday 
with all my credit cards, cell phone, documents and a quantity of 
private and to me dear property.

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:07:24 -0400
Subject: Stalin's Victory

We live in the illusion of winning the cold war. In fact, the Soviets 
won... This ads to the recently reported story "The New York Five" 
about five people with no criminal records wrongly arrested under 
the Patriot Act, and to the story of couple of Israeli citizens 
deported because they were standing on Brooklyn bridge (well, 
they do look like Arabs, don't they?). Can you imagine how many 
cases like this it will be now that 1 in 24 Americans is called upon 
to be a snitch? Have fun - volunteer! I just did. The more informants 
there is - the more chaos there will be (I am talking here from rather 
personal experience of former Yugoslavia). In the end everybody 
informed on everybody else, and there was not enough staff to 
parse through all the information and sift out the relevant stuff. The 
rest is history. Sometimes it looks as if Bush and Bin Laden work 
as well coordinated as did Tudjman and Milosevic during their war.
ps - interestingly it is reported by yet another American citizen 
seeking political asylum in Europe...

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

Published on Monday, July 15, 2002 in the Sydney Morning Herald
US Planning to Recruit One in 24 Americans as Citizen Spies
by Ritt Goldstein

The Bush Administration aims to recruit millions of United States citizens 
as domestic informants in a program likely to alarm civil liberties groups.

The Terrorism Information and Prevention System 
[http://www.citizencorps.gov/tips.html], or TIPS, means the US will have a 
higher percentage of citizen informants than the former East Germany 
through the infamous Stasi secret police. The program would use a minimum 
of 4 per cent of Americans to report "suspicious activity".

Civil liberties groups have already warned that, with the passage earlier 
this year of the Patriot Act, there is potential for abusive, large-scale 
investigations of US citizens.

As with the Patriot Act, TIPS is being pursued as part of the so-called war 
against terrorism. It is a Department of Justice project.

Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are 
being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to 
homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, 
truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.

A pilot program, described on the government Web site www.citizencorps.gov, 
is scheduled to start next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants 
participating in the first stage. Assuming the program is initiated in the 
10 largest US cities, that will be 1 million informants for a total 
population of almost 24 million, or one in 24 people.

Historically, informant systems have been the tools of non-democratic 
states. According to a 1992 report by Harvard University's Project on 
Justice, the accuracy of informant reports is problematic, with some 
informants having embellished the truth, and others suspected of having 
fabricated their reports.

Present Justice Department procedures mean that informant reports will 
enter databases for future reference and/or action. The information will 
then be broadly available within the department, related agencies and local 
police forces. The targeted individual will remain unaware of the existence 
of the report and of its contents.

The Patriot Act already provides for a person's home to be searched without 
that person being informed that a search was ever performed, or of any 
surveillance devices that were implanted.

At state and local levels the TIPS program will be co-ordinated by the 
Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was given sweeping new powers, 
including internment, as part of the Reagan Administration's national 
security initiatives. Many key figures of the Reagan era are part of the 
Bush Administration.

The creation of a US "shadow government", operating in secret, was another 
Reagan national security initiative.

Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the 
movement for US law enforcement accountability. He has lived in Sweden 
since 1997, seeking political asylum there, saying he was the victim of 
life-threatening assaults in retaliation for his accountability efforts. 
His application has been supported by the European Parliament, five of 
Sweden's seven big political parties, clergy, and Amnesty and other rights 

                       Copyright © 2002. The Sydney Morning Herald

No immunity from prosecutions for war crimes or terrorism!!!
U.S. government & military officials & corporate executives
must be subject to the same laws as the rest of the world!
Shebar Windstone <shebar@inch.com>
CHMOD http://www.inch.com/~shebar/
At-Home with Joan Nestle http://www.JoanNestle.com/
GLOW Tibet Archives http://www.tibet.org/glow/
Chushi Gangdruk http://www.chushigangdruk.org/
TibetanIssues.org http://www.tibetanissues.org/
(Un)Covering Tibet: Journalists & activists discuss news/media

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:11:47 -0400
Subject: Regarding the NY5

Regarding The New York Five case, two things strike me as unjust:
1) if this was a group of all-American drunk frat boys, and not five 
guys with a strange accent, would the case been treated under the 
Patriot Act and would the FBI be called in to investigate? 
Particularly in the case of Bosnian who holds US citizenship, this 
is a clear case of discrimination, I believe.
2) There were a Serb, a Croat and a Bosnian on the wrong side of 
the gate - yet Serb and Croat were put in deportation proceedings, 
while Bosnian wasn't. Why? Because the INS solved Bosnian 
immigration cases on a "fast track", so the Bosnian is already a 
citizen, while a Croat is in Kafkaesque asylum process for 8 years 
already... This is, also, discrimination.


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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:38:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Kostunica convenes Supreme Defense Council...

Well, that still means Kostunica will have to decide. Obviously, 
Milutinovic would cast a vote against him being sent to The Hague. 
Djukanovic we can expect will vote for him being sent there. So, it 
again boils down to Kostunica's decision. I understand that he 
would like to dig his head into the sand, but it simply won't work. 
Unless he is willing to resign his function, he will have to decide 
whether to send Milutinovic to The Hague or not. What was that 
saying in English - you can't have your lunch and eat it...


date sent:      	Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:28:46 -0400
send reply to:  	ewitte@cij.org
from:           	Eric Witte <ewitte@cij.org>
subject:        	Kostunica convenes Supreme Defense Council...

...to discuss ICTY-requested documents.  This means indicted Serbian
President Milan Milutinovic gets a one-third say on cooperation with ICTY.

Eric Witte
Coalition for International Justice

B92, 7/18/02

Kostunica convenes the Supreme Defence Council
15:34 BELGRADE, Thursday – Yugoslav President Vojislav Kostunica has called
a meeting of the Supreme Defence Council for tomorrow.

The Council, which comprises the Federal president and the presidents of
Montenegro and Serbia, is the collective supreme commander of the Yugoslav

On the agenda are demands from the Hague Tribunal for access to documents
which have been received by the Yugoslav Justice Ministry, according to a
statement from Kostunica’s office.

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From: "Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:12:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Zoran Lilic: "Cannot testify"

Ok. This is going to be a recurring b.s. we are hearing from the 
Milosevic's inner circle, obviously. What are they going to The 
Hague for? To do some shopping? To see whether they can find a 
lawyer that is willing to give them some dough? Serbia needs to 
pass a law outlawing Milosevic's state a.s.a.p. Kind of like new 
democratic Germany was not viewed as a continuation of Nazi 
Germany, and secrets from Nazi Germany were not protected as 
'state secrets' in the new democratic Germany, Serbia needs to 
draw a line, because she will not be able to re-join the democratic 
community of the nations if it continues to view itself as a 
continuation of a regime that is perceived by their neighbors as 

date sent:      	Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:23:34 -0400
send reply to:  	International Justice Watch Discussion List
from:           	Thomas Keenan <keenan@BARD.EDU>
subject:        	Zoran Lilic: "Cannot testify"

date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:17:11 +0200
from: Frank Tiggelaar <frankti@xs4all.nl>
reply-To: webmaster@domovina.net

Amsterdam, July 22nd, 2002 - DN list

Another setback for the prosecution in the Milosevic/Kosova case: Zoran
Lilic, Yugoslavia's president from 1993 to 1997, cannot testify in the
Milosevic case before the ICTY, he told the judges. He fears prosecution
in Yugoslavia when disclosing state secrets.

Lilic claims that Vojislav Kostunica (in his capacity of Chairman of the
Supreme Defence Council) must grant permission for him to testify in
court first. Lilic says he has not yet obtained such permission.  Later
this week the court will further discuss this matter in closed session.
During this session "another party" will also be heard. Because the
hearing will also deal with "the dignity of the State" it seems likely
that the "[an]other party" are representatives of Kostunica.


Based on Teletekst/ANP/Volkskrant

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