| nettime's_digestive_system on Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:06:07 +0200 (CEST) |
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| <nettime> talk of the town [cisler kapoor kozaitis joly molly caravita f porculus hovagimyan huck] |
cisler <cisler@pobox.com>
Re: <nettime> WP: Not Funny
Harsh Kapoor <aiindex@mnet.fr>
The Rumor Mill that came out of WTC attacks of 11 sept
ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS <anastasios.kozaitis@verizon.net>
Secret plans for 10-year war: Generals Rule out 'D-Day Type Invasion'
Richard Joly <rjoly@CAM.ORG>
Re: <nettime> Bomb Them With Butter, Bribe Them With Hope.
mollybh@netspace.net.au
FUTURES AHEAD
"Giuseppe Caravita" <bcaravita@public.iunet.it>
enforcement
"f," <ft@gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at>
Re: <nettime> Bomb Them With Butter, Bribe Them With Hope.
"porculus" <porculus@wanadoo.fr>
Re: [Nettime-bold] President Bush's Address to Congress and the
"G.H. Hovagimyan" <gh@popstar.com>
The End of America
"Simon Huck" <huck@cyberday.de>
A failure of vision?
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:33:11 -0700
Subject: Re: <nettime> WP: Not Funny
From: cisler <cisler@pobox.com>
Howard Rheingold's Caucus conf on Brainstorms is devoted to the WTC, and one
of the 50 plus items is on sick humor. I chose not to read more than a few
lines because it was mainly an intellectual justification for sharing them.
Back in college I read a psychiatric journal about the generating of sick
jokes as a function of time and distance from the event. they had studied
the emergence of jokes about Ed Gien, the guy who killed, preserved, and
gobbled folks in Wisconsin or MN. I think hannibal Lecter is based on him. A
few miles from the town the jokes began soon, and they spread away from
ground zero with increasing frequency.
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:15:50 +0100
From: Harsh Kapoor <aiindex@mnet.fr>
Subject: The Rumor Mill that came out of WTC attacks of 11 sept
Rumors of War
A collection of links to pages discussing the various rumors to come
out of the September 11 terrorist attack on the United States of
America.
http://www.snopes2.com/info/rumors.htm
--
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:57:11 -0400
From: ANASTASIOS KOZAITIS <anastasios.kozaitis@verizon.net>
Subject: Secret plans for 10-year war: Generals Rule out 'D-Day Type Invasion'
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001320010-2001325231,00.html
maybe the folks in DC are wiser than I give them credit for.
this article in the Times of London states that there will not be any
carpet bombing.
"There's no point in firing a lot of missiles at bin Laden if they miss
their target, or launching Tomahawks at bin Laden training camps if they
are empty," one source said.
--Ak
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:26:46 -0400
From: Richard Joly <rjoly@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Bomb Them With Butter, Bribe Them With Hope.
At 15:54 01-09-19 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Bomb Them With Butter, Bribe Them With Hope.
> Jay Wilder [jayw88@home.com]
>
> A military response, particularly an attack on Afghanistan, is exactly
> what the terrorists want. It will strengthen and swell their small but
> fanatical ranks.
there's an article today in L'Express, on a slighly different conceptual
angle to this problem yet reaching for similar ideas in conflict resolution.
Sorry, I'm really lousy at translating
but this is a good web engine better than babelfish [imho} to help with
reading the following article
http://www.voila.fr/Trans/
ssssssssssnipppppppppppppppppppp
http://www.lexpress.fr/Express/Info/Monde/Dossier/attentatsus/dossier.asp?id
=326090
L'Express du 20/09/2001 France
Détourner, retourner
par Jacques Attali
j@attali.com
Toute la stratégie du terrorisme moderne vise à retourner la force du
maître contre lui. Les terroristes n'ont pas cherché à poser les avions
détournés sur un aéroport quelconque, mais à les retourner comme des armes
contre leur propriétaire. Voici venu le temps des «retourneurs». Ce sont
d'anciens élèves de la CIA qui dirigent ces réseaux, c'est l'argent des
Etats-Unis et de ses alliés qui leur a permis de prospérer. Ce sont les
orgueilleux gratte-ciel de New York qui ont servi de pièges aux victimes.
C'est Internet, dans sa dimension la plus commerciale, qui véhicule en
contrebande les messages des assassins. Plus généralement, ce sont les
technologies et les moyens de la puissance civile de l'Occident qui
menacent maintenant d'être retournés contre lui. Jusqu'à la mort elle-même,
devenue une arme pour tuer.
C'est vieux comme le monde: les faibles ont toujours retourné les armes des
forts, les maîtres ont toujours reçu comme des boomerangs leurs propres
armes. Dans la Bible, Moïse détourne la magie des prêtres égyptiens pour
frapper le pharaon. Et les arts martiaux japonais en ont fait leur
philosophie depuis des millénaires. Demain, peut-être, ces terroristes
détourneront et retourneront contre nous nos réseaux d'eau, d'électricité,
nos centrales nucléaires, nos systèmes téléphoniques et informatiques, nos
marchés financiers, notre chimie, notre pharmacie, notre biologie, notre
génétique: nos moyens sont si puissants qu'ils peuvent fournir à l'infini
des armes aux «retourneurs».
Face à de telles stratégies, il est illusoire d'espérer gagner par le seul
jeu d'une force supérieure: elle sera toujours récupérée pour nourrir la
vengeance du faible. Un boxeur ne bat jamais un judoka, à moins de sortir
une arme à feu. L'URSS a disparu pour avoir tenté de mener une telle
stratégie en Afghanistan et en Europe centrale. Si l'Occident fait de même,
en se lançant dans des représailles aveugles, il sera acculé, par
l'engrenage des contre-représailles, à utiliser ses armes les plus
suicidaires. On débouchera alors sur la guerre entre civilisations, dont
rêvent les plus stratèges des «retourneurs».
La seule réponse efficace consisterait à retourner contre eux ce qu'ils
croient être leurs points forts: la colère des désespérés et la ferveur de
l'islam. C'est du retournement de ces deux énergies que dépend l'issue de
la bataille. Elle n'est pas impossible à gagner. La plupart des autorités
religieuses et politiques du Sud se sont désolidarisées de ces actes. Elles
savent que, dans une guerre aveugle, leurs peuples seraient les premières
victimes des prochaines balles perdues. Elles savent aussi que le progrès
servirait mieux leurs intérêts que la violence suicidaire. Elles savent
enfin que les intégrismes sont les premiers ennemis des faibles.
Pour qu'ils s'engagent vraiment dans la bataille, il faudra fournir aux
hommes (et surtout aux femmes) de ces mondes les moyens de gagner la guerre
contre la misère et l'ignorance. C'est beaucoup plus difficile que de
bombarder quelques camps d'entraînement.
endssssssssssnipppppppppppppppppppp
endssssssssssnipppppppppppppppppppp
Richard
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From: mollybh@netspace.net.au
Subject: FUTURES AHEAD
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:54:18 +1000 (EST)
One way out of the captialist cowboy ("wanted dead or alive") and the
capitalist religious-patriarchalrhetoric on "both sides" of the global
picture is to situate ourselves among the oppressed women of the world as
this is one common denominator of both the west and the east which is an
outcome of male-dominated governing bodies - rogue or proper - and upon
situating ourselves among the oppressed women of all nations, to rethink
the possible sets of futures we may have in terms of the on-going
international struggles by oppressed women for human rights, dignity,
personal freedom and empowerment. With all our strength, we pose a mighty
alternative to chauvanistic male-dominance in all its destructive forms.
------------------------------------------------------------
This email sent from Netspace Webemail: www.netspace.net.au
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From: "Giuseppe Caravita" <bcaravita@public.iunet.it>
Subject: enforcement
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:00:03 +0200
Enforcement of the neoliberist power or enforcement of democracy?
I personally came to realize that this is the dilemma, the fork, the =
real political agenda now for all of us. See. The last nineties, a =
decade key for the spreading of freedom (in the form of the "radical", =
and quite fundamentalist, neoliberist paradigm), gave to us a =
world-system now in deep disequilibrium.
Ecological: we have no more than 10 years to revert a path toward a "no =
return point" for the whole umankind; The economic ghrowt in the =
framework of the old infrastructure is our principal enemy, now. We need =
to change it.
Social: we need to reinvent-rebuild completely welfare and safety net, =
otherwise the system will implode at Home and abroad; the system now is =
not recession-proof.
Energetic: we need a structural change in the whole energy =
infrastructure of the world, from China to Latin America, to Usa and =
Europe, to Rihjiad and Tokio in the ridicoulos span of ten years;
Political: we need to overcome feudalism in all the nations of the =
world, giving birth to a global-local "fabric", a global-local market, =
and a global-local "conversation" about planet conditions and processes, =
solutions, government strategies and achievements.
A conversation-cooperation wide, involving all Terrans (Inhabitants of =
this planet). A real conversation and a real, autocontrolled action. =
Able to change others and us, able to lead a revolution in our and =
others structures, expectancies, lifesyles, way to cooperate and =
conflict. But under a set of "rules" (a suggestion: a global internet =
Netiquette?).
Those are (hypotesys) minimum conditions for an equilibrium, given (and =
added to) the relative freedom of markets acquired in the last decade; =
We have only ten-twenty years to achieve that.
Imagine. We was already in a war environment (in other words: in a =
compelling required change situation) when Seattle young people started =
to say "no", more than one year ago. Now Osama, the general of the =
feudalist army, has reminded us the duty.
Is important now, is decisive to decide How (not "if") to accomplish =
this duty. This is politics now. This is ideal. This is strategy.
Remember: we need to define and work and exploit real equilibrium =
condictions and an enforcement to achieve this goal in the time frame =
given to us by the present history and reality.
Equilibrium is NOT Usa above all.
Equilibrium is NOT bilateralisation and non-cooperation
Equilibrium is NOT capitalism and markets as Gods
Equilibrium is NOT no-global o pro-global bla bla bla
Equilibrium is NOT any kind of fundamentalism, from Silicon Valley to =
Israel, from Peking, Cuba to Islamabad.
Equilibrium is NOT McDonalds-Nike-Microsoft-Coca Cola dominancy.
Equilibrium is NOT europeans Nomenklatures...and so on.
RELATIVITY is equilibrium. (Or a reasonable set of conditions for).
And the best system we have for that is DEMOCRACY, in other words common =
(and common sense) evaluations, conflict, scoop, reflection, public =
interest about facts, solutions, vested interests, strategies, options, =
expectations, lyfestiles, public and private investments....But =
democracy means also "public resources" to aid people in the process of =
relativity building. For example (only one): free speech in the digital =
communications medias.
So, let's work for this agenda. The duty , in reality, is huge. We need =
in reality a ultra-vast coalition of human beings to win. Muslisms, =
christian, buddhist, shinto, agnostics.... And in general (and above =
all) good-will humans (be blessed...). Able to converse (and that =
normally is possibile if you eat sometimes...). Able to have credit =
(micro and more). Able to have a terminal (low cost) to carry out the =
conversation, in particular with other and different people, overcoming =
also some little barriers, as anglo-american language, culture, even =
literacy (there is room for a lot of strategic Darpa-style research =
here, you see...)
Only a word to the governments: let that happen and execute the duty =
this way. Not only with the boring, old-fashioned-consequencies, Army. =
We all sense the umankind is in danger (you remember Kyoto?). But saving =
umankind destroing his spirit will be effortless. And worse for all Us.
Ciao
Beppe Caravita (a citizen)
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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:22:55 +0200 (CEST)
From: "f," <ft@gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Bomb Them With Butter, Bribe Them With Hope.
> Bomb them with information. Video players and cassettes of world
> leaders, particularly Islamic leaders, condemning terrorism. Carpet
> the
> country with magazines and newspapers showing the horror of terrorism
> committed by their "guest". Blitz them with laptop computers and DVD
> players filled with a perspective that is denied them by their
> government.
bullshit. or, to be more precise: i'd prefer to have afghanistan not
bombed at all. has it ever come to mind that perspectives are not only
denied by whatever afghan gouvernment but that the lack of what you call
perspectives is result of lets say: "western" politics since decades? ever
heard of colonialism and neocolonialism? and what makes you know what
kind of perspectives the ananymous afghan people desire? the other way
round: what would be the results of your bombardements (which would need
to include powerstations to run all the nice equipment; and to give the
afghan people the full chance of comparing the alternatives: would you
include for instance dvds with porn? with all those action-films that in
subtle ways stirred nationalism in the past? with shots taken in the slums
of ny and manila and mexico? with the deathchambers in us-prisons?)? would
it mean that they'd get all the advantages of capitalist economy, starting
with privatizations, devastated ecologies and ending with microsoft and mc
donalds? how much do people have to assimilate to be accepted as part of
"the" civilized world?
the concept of bombing afghanistan with all the gadgets of western culture
is nothing else throwing a dime in the beggar's hat: it may give you a
good feeling and the recipient a slice of bread or a can of beer; it won't
change anything else. you're completely right that it is important to
learn to think in new ways; the way you propose is as old as capitalism
itself: it's gratitude and magnanimity instead of rethinking the
fundaments of unequality.
> a future is a powerful deterrent to martyrdom. All we ask in return is
> that they, as a people, agree to enter the civilized world. That
> includes handing over terrorists in their midst.
and once again the question: what if they do not agree: will than the real
bombs have to fall? what if they ask that those responsible for economic
exploitation of their country are handed over to them?
> Do we want to live a life of fear as people in the middle east do?
may it be that their fear was (and is) the price for our relative security
and wealth? is it possible that the war that gets started presumably this
weekend has the goal to restore that security and make the same people pay
the price?
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From: "porculus" <porculus@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [Nettime-bold] President Bush's Address to Congress and the
American People
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:49:23 +0200
> Either you are with us, or you are
> with the terrorists. (Applause.)
is gw bush jesus christ ? terror is possibly the most volatil capital in
politcs and a very risky one, and plus to have generate it is not a garanti
of dividende property. a so extraordinary capital could be so easily
preempted by their non producer the new owner is clear of the black mark. a
good politc couldnt not to deal with that clean sweep, it's his politcal
duty. ha so btw : gw bush is not jesus christ (Non applause, deathly
silence, etc.)
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From: "G.H. Hovagimyan" <gh@popstar.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:32:01 +0800
Subject: The End of America
I did this piece as a video and text for my Palm
Rants project.
<http://artnetweb.com/gh/rants.html>
It was done on August 31st, 2001.
How do you think America will end?
Some say we will be overrun with immigrants.
Others say we will turn into a country ruled by
corporations.
Will we be destroyed for our sinfulness like
Sodom and Gommorrah by a religious terrorist?
Let's say that we continue along with building
housing developments and burning fossil fuel
and depleting our natural resources.
I mean after all, the business of America is
business. Then what? The American desert?
How about this?
We build machines more intelligent than us and
they take over.
Maybe.
But the lessons of history tell us that all empires
fall victim to their own success.
Everyone in America is afraid of something.
But you wonder if the fear is being manufactured
by the politicians and mass media or if it's being
generated from the population or maybe its a bit
of both.
So America has a new mission. Conquer the
world with capitalism.
But what if the world doesn't want it.
Is America always right?
--
_______________________________________________
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From: "Simon Huck" <huck@cyberday.de>
Subject: A failure of vision?
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:58:48 +0200
Terrorist assault against World Trade Center:
A failure of vision?
"Nobody could have imagined such an attack" was an often heard comment in
the days since September 11, 2001. That is a little incorrect: Some experts
developed already years ago scenarios, which even in detail forecasted
possible dimensions of an terrorist attack against the United States. John
Arquilla from Rand Corp., a Santa Monica based think tank mainly sponsored
by United States forces painted a picture how "the great cyberwar of 2002"
could force United States into a war "where the enemy is invisible, the
battles virtual, and the casualties all too real".
But even three captains of United States Air Force were already in autumn
1997 concerned with possible dimensions of an terrorist attack against
Washington D.C. Until recently this text, printed in summer edition of
"Aerospacepower Journal", was available online. Since some days the server
of United States Air Forec University is closed down. Cyberday´s Art Portal
therefore decided to make this important text available.
http://www.cyberday.de/news/ausgabe.php3?news=100028
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