www.nettime.org Nettime mailing list archives
| brian carroll on 15 Feb 2001 11:27:55 -0000 |
[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]
| [Nettime-bold] Re: 'Spatial Discursions' - (space and no space) |
fascinating Pit, in many ways, some of which i view as
including personal assessments of my belief in my own
work in regards to this subject. i think it is a major
flaw in your position, and will get to that later. but
also that, again, your perspective enlarges the question
to the full-scope it reaches. to me space is engimatic in
many ways, and maybe it is because of language and naming,
but i think not, given your multiple arguments for the
end of cyberspace. it seems the best way to sum it up
is: cyberspace is tired. a very west coast thing, if
you ask me. and an unhealthy trait of nettimers as
producers and consumers of throwaway ideas, in one
end and out the other. how 'space' can be simply
thrown away, to me, is baffling. if not insane.
there are so many interesting things you bring up,
and yet on most, when it comes to conclusions based
on the evidence you present, i find richness in the
garbage, rather than waste. i find meaning, rather
than worn metaphors. i find ideas 5 years old still
worth thinking about, not simply to be discarded and
new ones 'purchased' by an insider on the net.thought
crowd. and thought, in many cases, it is, but philosophy
it is not. for philosophy is debated and questioned,
not authoritatively dismissed as being beyond the pale.
nettime consumes thought as a type of division of labor.
there are thinkers, there are non-thinkers. there are
net.intellectuals, the net.avant-garde, and others. in
this division, a concept like 'space' and all of its
complexity as a subject of thousands of years of study
by people whom know it in more than a thinking dimension,
whom can draw it, think it, act it, smell it, feel it,
dream it. and then there are those that can think it,
or so it seems. this is a myth of course, the division
of labor of ideas, of space. but it is the construct
that ideas of space currently are exchanged within,
where space is in some cross-disciplinary mix, between
art, architecture, geography, & science and technology.
to have a 'san francisco programmer' defeat the idea
of space from the perspective of a programmer looking
out from his keyboard at the 'billboards' (banner-ads)
of the web browser and say 'space does not exist' as
it ends at my screen is, to say the least, idiotic.
at its most basic level it is untrue. now, if one states
why this is so, the defense mechanism for the theoretical
absence of space is only reinforced by intellectualist
arguments. intellectualist in the sense that, yes it is
thinking, but it is not necessarily logical thinking,
and not all thinking is equally valuable. it is value-
laden, but who decides value. you, Pit, have stated a
large position, but it in no way negates my position.
it is based on very large assumptions promoted by an
intellectual division of labor. and instead of breaking
down the issue to get at the core, more and more issues
are added in. cybernetics, biotechnology, aliens, and
Stalinist drives for power. all of which may have their
place in this discussion, but only make the water more
muddy and hard to see what is being debated, and what
the issue we disagree about indeed is. instead of a
divisive approach of divide and conquer (of new modes
of `spatial discursions', that very issue that seems
to be the problem with the concept of cyberspace), i
suggest we simply and break this nut apart and see
what kind of meat is on the inside...
first, to divest context of the division of labor on
the thinking of space online. Virilio, in my reading,
does not negate space in his arguments, as much as
presents the idea that space becomes intangible in
its new speed. i believe one of his examples was to
relate measurements, a meter or foot, a mile, etc,
and ultimately works to the idea of these now being
standardized based on the vibrations of atoms, i.e.,
the atomic clock as standard bearer. there is time,
the clock of the middle ages made of molecules, and
there is the atomic clock, sub-atomic. one can be
seen and directly perceived, and the other requires
some type of equipment to view, such as a electron
microscope. there are two orders of time, which are
most visible in the analog clock (round dial with
2 watch hands, one for minute and one for hour) and
the digital, with LCD output. at least there once
was. the one design, the analog watch, is based on
some kind of planetary time, and the cycle of the
day has some dual meanings, in that time is broken
down into twelve hour cycles and the continuity is
seen. the digital watch is all numbers. and a small
a.m. or p.m. symbol designates which section of the
12 hour cycle one is in. the point being that there
is a difference in the watches keeping of time, in
appearance. now, if we take this concept, post-1970
whereabouts the first digital watches were made, and
look at an 'analog' watch today, we can see what may
appear to be the 'mechanical' analogue watch of the
many centuries of prior timepiece development, but
if we open the shell we will find an electric battery.
the digital watch is obviously electric, the other is
not. both are using the same power source to keep time.
but one presents itself in traditional guise, and the
other in a new aesthetic. this is an example of how
two orders coexist, both electric. one identified as
such, the other sublimated, with traditional aspects
presented as the primary interface, but a simulation.
i will now try to relate these two orders to the idea
of space and cyberspace.... (please substitute any other
word other than cyberspace that you would use to define
the following comparision)...
two orders of space likewise exist. one is traditional,
the other is new, someday to become its own tradition.
the cave painting, or better yet, a fire pit outside
a cave with hunters with wooden spears and bone tools,
try to communicate with each other about the animals
nearby, which they need to kill to survive. they must
have grunted a lot, banged on things, probably pushed
each other over, and ran inside and outside of the
cave a lot. such is the problem with communicating
without a shared language.
at some point, they externalized their perceptions in
the manipulation of symbols. paintings of animals, for
example. if such graphics were recognized as a type of
language, so too it is likely that in the dirt outside
the fire pit, they may have at one time drawn a map of
where the animal-monsters were to be killed. maybe the
tip of a spear was used to draw a diagram, and the dirt
was used as a type of medium to communicate spatial and
other information. so, at some point, some kind of map
or diagram was used to show 'place.' (if this is too in-
accurate, i know there are the first maps of civilization
at another time, but wanted to try for a smaller scale,
for the following comparison...)
eventually maps began to be made, see Odden's Bookmarks
for a slew of all the varieties, and become a way to
represent the prevailing reality of spatial belief and
understanding, part art, science, and myth. for the
most part, these maps could be related to the analog
watch. in that they corresponded with the prevailing
realities of either the map makers, or those individuals,
states, and civilizations they were commissioned by in
ink and pencil, watercolors, oil paints, and paper.
cut to year 2001. an individual flys into a large
American city and has a Personal Digital Assistant
(PDA) with them as their digital information device.
in the USA, one can get a laminated maps at the
tourist shops for a few dollars which show all of
the tourist hotspots and places for sight-seeing.
in a sense, these maps continue the old traditional
map-making procedure of defining place, but most
likely in the 'conquering of space' by coding it
and making it hierarchical and differentiating it
and giving it value (rich cultural places) and
no value (no hotspots on the map). but let's say
the person/traveller also has a Global Positioning
System (GPS) plug-in for their PDA...
when they turn on their GPS module, an electric
device, a new paradigmatic event occurs, unlike
that of traditional notions of space- and, likely
many stander-by's have no idea that this GPS is
a different paradigm of space. for instead of
seeing and interacting in traditional space of
the body and its senses, at whatever the sense
of perception is for seeing (eyesight can only
see so many hundreds of feet/meters ahead) and
sound (can only hear within a certain range)...
the GPS is using electronic satellites in orbit,
around the entire Earth, to calculated via a
triangulation of 3 different satellites, the
semi-exact position of the GPS device, and thus
the user of the map, via digital, electronic
signals interacting between the GPS module,
the satellites, and the ground-tracking stations.
the satellites are, i think, 33 miles up in orbit-
beyond sight. now, on the GPS, one can get a real-
time update of where they are- on the planet Earth,
via longitude and latitude, and also have a digital
compass to give directions, via digital satellites.
if lucky, the GPS will have software for the PDA
which will have some street-map software. and the
user of the GPS can utilize pre-made maps, with
hotspots made by travel companies, or download
custom maps from the internet, or make their own
via marking space and giving it meaning. the GPS
user becomes a mapmaker, if they so want, and can
load their information back onto the internet and
others can add to the map and create whole new
maps. it is at least now becoming a possibility.
in this example, the GPS device is the digital
watch, a new order, which still has the old map
in its representation, but in a different paradigm
and with different qualities. (those whom find the
word 'representation' too out of date, i'd be glad
to debate the issue, to find out more about the
basis for this popular belief).
basically, the 'Spatial Discursions' author's
argument can be compared to the traditional map
and the GPS map:
'Robert Nirre' states that the traditional 'map'
is spatial, conceptually and functionally.
'Robert Nirre' states that the GPS map is non-
spatial, from the argument that 'the traditoinal
map' inside of the GPS, in this case the software,
which he is perceiving, has no spatial connection
as there is nothing extending outside of itself.
in my view Pit's argument goes further down this
road, by talking about the layers of the technology,
which i would compare with the latitude and the
longitude aspects of GPS, or, on the hardware side,
the way the packets are being sent. Pit presumes
there is no 'meaning' in this 'materiality'. this
argument, while popular and populist, disregards
many important facts.
for the GPS system, as a spatial system, to work
requires more than the computer/PDA, and the
software. it requires a global infrastructure.
literally, dozens of satellites. hundreds of
ground stations. repeater stations. and lots
of data exchange and power to run the works.
without this infrastructure, the GPS map would
not work. now, can the GPS map, as a spatial
device, be separated from this infrastructure
as Pit appears to be saying, and Robert Nirre
has most definitely stated? absolutely not.
how can a global mapping system work without
the global infrastructure to map the space?
there is no meaning in a satellite in regards
to the GPS map? no meaning to a ground station?
that is like positing the Internet without hubs
and routers (at least this incarnation thereof).
there is great hubris in 'thinking' that there
is an intellectual division between the thought
of the GPS map, or the new electromagnetic space
that it represents (cyberspace could be one of
many variant and imperfect words to describe it).
the division-of-labor thinker, aka "Theorist",
intellectual, official/legitimate philosopher
[need a Ph.D. for that these days, it seems...]
makes the false claim that because the 'inside'
of the experience, as experienced by the thinker,
is perceived and interpreted in 'his' (as in
Mr. Robert Nirre's) viewpoint, somehow this is
a universal truth about the experience, as it is
theoretical, has big words, has some interesting
conceptual breadth and insight, and yet rests on
a totally deficient understanding of space and
of the larger technological structure, and its
vital relationship to space-making, and instead,
denies this, or better, negates it as is popular
in theoretical circles, in order to 'think space.'
talking with a young child, one could likely be
able to explain how GPS works and ask a simple
question like: could GPS work without Satellites?
but with Robert Nirre, no such question is possible.
nor with Pit. as there are tons of pre-established
positions on these issues. and discourse becomes
'talking-points', a type of brain sampling, but
caught in the discursive practice, every loop is
creating archives, but also digging ditches, until
we can agree we need to make a ladder and get out
of this competitive grave, agree on some basic
truths, and start working together instead of
against one another. cooperation, then competition.
no, it is not possible for GPS to work without
the satellite networks. nor without electromagnetic
digital information, nor without electricity, nor
without Einstein's and others' physics. how these
are simply disregarded as outside the playing field
of thinking about space is truly beyond comprehension.
because of the division of labor in thinking, it
is hard to discuss any possibility, _any possibility_,
of universal and common truths, however fleeting and
with whatever degree of uncertainty they inherently
convey. sure, gnostic beliefs and mystic adventures
await for all the cult-theorists, or cult-pols, on
the internet, to scoop up brains and train them to
think straight in a prioritized and private rationale
for 'how things work'. but truth, as truth, and thinking
as thinking, cannot simply negate universals with this
position, and deem it not credible because of heresy.
there are a million messiahs and a million churches being
built online. that's not what this is about, in case it
needs to be said. it seems like a battle of egos. one
truth has to conquer another truth. truth, while it can
be empirical, can also be paradoxical. but- computer
processors today do not process information that way
just yet, nor do our brains, as it is not part of our
common logic. it seems that it comes down to whether
or not Robert Nirre, Pit, or myself win this debate.
rather than that there are issues involved, that
surround beliefs and perceptions of what is true,
and that finding out that truth is what is important.
i do not dismiss whole eras of 'history' because they
are unfashionable. not many have had to question their
sanity, but when you do, truth becomes very important,
as it is an issue of life and death. so too, is reason
and rationality more than its negative effects. more
than its relativistic failures. more than its utopian
dreams and dystopic nightmares, and our Earthly dragons.
thinking goes beyond discourse, beyond opinion, beyond
interpretation, beyond debate. even great unanswerable
questions must be asked, and attempts made at answering
them, even though the futility is known well in advance.
it is a way of testing ideas, testing thought, reality.
do we exist in the same reality, you and i, Pit? i know
for one thing, i certainly do not with Robert Nirre. he
is hallucinating. he's nuts. he has no grounding for his
ideas. he is dreaming, and is probably quite well-enough
established to not to have to worry about it affecting
his life. it is status quo 'See, I'm Theorizing!' that
pre-supposes shared meaning where there is none, and
assumes his empirical experience to be universal, when
it is sadly narrow-minded in terms of `spatial discursive
practice'. there is good to it, but the thesis is an
insult to anyone who thinks differently, based on facts
in the material world that can be counted and observed
and reviewed and replicated by others. it is just another
example of the role of theory as another institutional
mechanism for the ideologues, in this case a good ol'
technocrat in disguise, in the guise of an intellectual,
whatever that means to people. anti-intellectual is
a bad thing to some, i don't think so myself. part of
the problem is all of the intellectualizing. it divorces
the reality of the experience from its perception, and
perception becomes the issue, and not the reality. with
ultimately some god (or goddess) coming along to stand
on the heads of everyone else, in pure Nietzschian fashion
to declare themselves the new theorist, the super-wo|man,
the semantic-wo|man whom determines meaning for the masses
based on superior knowledge, uncontestable, and not unlike
the philosophy that bred totalitarians. but in this case
they are leading, but anonymous or untouchable, net.thinkers.
the scarcity of these net.thinkers is found with any challenge
to their ideas. what sets nettimers apart, in my experience,
is they will debate enough so that the ideas can be exposed
and their bones picked at in this 'death of nettime' space,
in the most basic existentialist sense. the above quote is
a reversal of the 'death of cyberspace' nettime that is now
going on. i see nettime as no more legitimate an idea than
that of cyberspace.
the simplest but most painful way of conveying what this
boils down to is that the philosophy which overrides
net.thought and the prevailing logic that exists online,
to date, is one that is established on traditional grounds,
and in the division of labor, net.intellectuals, knowingly
or not, are exploiting these relations in much the same way
as the causes they stand against. paradox, contradiction,
and hypocrisy- myself included. net.thought is much like
a discourse about digital watches, all the while using
logic of the analog watch, which is itself run by the
same power structure that powers the digital. but the
power structure, the energy-matter is separated from
the information, in a division of intellectual labor.
the result is that, so as to not contradict the Either-
Or position, one has to choose reality, choose truth.
what is being chosen is not these, but instead the
perception of truth and reality, based on a flawed
logic and reason and rationale.
to declare no space in cyberspace is equivalent to
declaring no battery in the present-day analog watch,
as it would ruin the illusion that things are already
figured out and the empiricism that has been used up
to this day for interpretation is not any different
from that of today's direct experience, and no significant
reframing of the issues or questions is needed. we only
need to process the present and theorize it and figure
it out, so we can continue the long march into surity,
which if anything is the biggest myth of all. apostasy
is so.
whether it is cyber- virtual- electronic- electromagnetic-
digital- or new- space, there is space. there will always
be space. it is not dividing because it is between the
different disciplines of the University, between the
different depart-mentalized understandings of it as a
phenom. there must be a way to break out of constructs
and see them anew, seeing them without the baggage of
interpretation- at times with their stories, at times
without. how can net.thought be so absolute. so assured
of its certainty that 'no space exists'. it is nothing
but messianic bread and fish, multiplied by being multi-
plexed by the internetwork of co-processors. it becomes
pure Dogma, which it has become in Robert Nirre's essay.
there is no logic to stand on, nothing to debate. unless
it is sanity. how material objects of non-thinkers (say
an electrical lineworker or telecom worker whose trade
is to maintain the data and power lines on the wooden
distribution poles) are irrelevant to this 'dis-course'
and its practice as a type of thinking is unclear. there
is some type of cultural noise happening here. there are
loaded words from all perspectives. buttons are being
pushed at the same times hands are being shaken. this
is not bad. this is life. this is thinking. this is
discourse. but what about action? how are we going to
get beyond talking. beyond debating. beyond disagreement
without constructive solutions to these recursive loops
inherent in language? to me this is an issue as central
to nettime as anything in the current .sig, as it is
what seems can only be called the No Exit condition of
nettime as discursive (theory and) practice. theory is
bullshit. what more is there to say? thoughts and ideas
are what is important. theory is a package for them.
but instead it has become its own value, as a type of
high-art for thinking, the 'new' philosophy, unbounded
by the limits of the past, but in total obedience to
its structure while denying any connection. it is not
about individuals as much as it is about systems. it
is not about people being untruthful, as much as ideas
being not exactly true or altogether inaccurate, from
the grounds and assumptions used to establish them.
there is a trade wind online and off, and it is blowing
conservatism all over the place. even in the most open
of forums. there is a bad feeling, something in the gut
that growls and does not go away. there is a probabilistic
inevitability that Bad Things are bound to happen, given
the state of the world. given the state of discourse.
given the state of incompatible ideas and specialized,
divided modes of operation. cooperation on any scale
as a whole is impossible. no change is in site. ideas
are eating ideas. often the lesser ideas prevail in
the Universities. in the Schools of Thought. in the
Expert Knowledge. in the Philosophers and Theorists
of Today. spectacle does not start with the eyes,
it starts with the mind.
with my utmost respect to both Pit and the nettime
crew, i dissent this system as it exists. i both
love it and hate it. i need it and yet cannot stand
my need for it. for some, it is like a last hope of
any significant action. if it cannot happen with those
on nettime, it cannot happen online. and many are here
because ideas already cannot happen offline. if there
is any space that does not exist, it is for ideas which
contradict the prevailing paradigm, on the largest scale.
my assumption was always that nettime was established
with a paradigmatically different vantage of events.
but to my surprise, everything is based in traditional
modes of understanding. stuck in time, is nettime.
analog mind, speculating about digital time, while
ignoring the batteries running the works.
the cosmology of the big bang to life is not divided
at the cellular level. information is not separated
from matter and energy. information is matter and
energy. if a koan is needed, McLuhan's will do: the
Electric Light is Pure Information. the cell and
molecules of DNA are supported by the electromagnetic
structure of atoms and molecules. mutations have been
attributed to high-energy particles knocking electrons
out of orbit and causing reconfigurations of matter/
energy/information and life to evolve. the human spine
is a data and power infrastructure connecting the signal
systems of the body so as to experience or sense reality,
interpreted by the electro-chemical brain. the human
brain thinks, i exist. it externalizes itself in maps
infront of fires, trying to communicate with symbols
and signs. ultimately, tools are developed, and things
are experimented with. 2500 years ago a fellow named
Thales finds amber and notices a spark. the connection
between the lighting and gods and in the sky is brought
to the ground in this magical stone. research & development
begins. lighting, communications, power. basic industries
(those smokestack industrial things that power this
electronic box that enables us to communicate) are born
centuries ago in basic experiments and discoveries.
systems are created and evolve, enabling electrification.
all of the analog industries slowly start to adapt/adopt
the new electromagnetic order. buildings change. people
change. tools change. language changes. watches have
batteries. guitars go electric and becomes rock n roll.
satellites are launched. atomic bombs explode. the
Earth is melts. pollution from power plants and 2/3rds
energy inefficiency devastate the planet. the USA uses
1/4 of the world's energy, with a fraction of the world's
population. the internet is born, apparently to many,
out of thin air, no infrastructure, no context, besides
the immediate. people are inside the space it creates,
all those poles and towers which have been around for
often 100 years in some form in the built environment-
and since they are not visible online, they do not
exist, as they are not on a webpage. they are not in
this internal self-referential turing-machine, where
whatever is outside a person's 'reality' is someone
else's (division of labor) perspective. there is no
whole. there is nothing in common. there is nothing
in this 13+ billion year evolution of electromagnetism.
lighting, Thor, Zeus, electric eels, light bulbs,
consciousness, computer processors, radios, knowledge
of the electromagnetic force, the speed of light,
microwave ovens, PDAs, electric ignitions, piezo-
electric lighters, and whatnot- none of these are
related- difference/differance prevails. why? there
can be no absolute order. there can be no universal
order. there can be nothing true on the whole, as
everything is ultimately subjective, and of private
language, private visioning. an electromagnetic
cosmology is not a private question. it is surely
debatable. but to put it off as a private illusion
is the worst of the current realm of thinkers. if
facts do not matter, if truths do not matter, if
pre-built structures and interpretations prevail,
what is this type of thinking, but that of tradition?
it is the analog watch using a battery denying the
existence of the battery, its motive force. it is
a new order, a new space, a new time. Virilio writes
of it, in my opinion, too religiously, and others
do, in my opinion, too mystically. what about a
secular understanding of this phenomenon? what
about its common thread throughout reality, from
thought to action, from matter to energy to information.
this is not plastic we're discussing. it is life.
if for some it is vitalistic, that's fine. but it
does not have to be that for everyone. if for others
it is purely technical, that too is fine. but to
deny it on subjective grounds as personal interpretation
is an example of everything that is wrong with the
current attitude, and aptitude of net.thinking. it
is as much about posture as it is about position.
it is more about the aesthetics of ideas in terms
of their beauty, than about the design of ideas
and their truth. the egos must be lost. the
hierarchies flattened. the institutional channels
opened up for new interpretations which challenge
their own foundations of understanding. this is
a radical time, it has huge potential for people
to organize and work together in the best and most
open sense, to enact the change we can agree that
we need. the problem is that we cannot agree. and
there is no 'we' under the current system of
net.thought. there exists no net.action.
when, where, how will we come together, in this
space (your non-space) and work on shared goals?
is it even possible? i have been optimistic up to
this point, but a thunderstorm runs through my
mind as i contemplate the fallout from furthering
this discussion. writing is abrasive. getting
together and talking about this need not be so.
but that is not always a possibility. we have to
mediate ourselves in language, through communication
networks. we can talk, as if we are in the same
room, space, that we are offline, which we are not.
that is not the argument. the argument is whether
this space can be understood and 'seen' and also
whether the rules of language can be deciphered
so we can re-code our communications so as to
get beyond the current barriers of language and
into a constructive and active relationship by
understanding this space (not by denying it) and
export or port this action into the external
world, much like the first hunters looking for
the game for dinner, to keep the tribe alive.
well, some have a tribe. many do not, in the
larger sense, in an undivided sense. barriers
and divisions prevail, and withstand any breach
from traditional means and methods. it is time,
net.time, to break with tradition and look at
these problems, and understand them from our
first person perspective, and build our new
empiricism based upon what we, as a common
group of people, see and experience. but
not as private individuals, but as a group.
what do we have in common. war, poverty,
death, inequality, pollution, etc. well,
if we understand networked.space-time as
as it is materially manifested in the
electromagnetic infrastructure, both
natural, artificial, and virtual, we
are connected, by default to all of
these issues. and to deny this is to
do so only on intellectualistic grounds,
not on common sense of intersubjective
facts/truths common to most all. this
is the great silence, the great denial,
the great intellectual division of labor,
and the thinkers are responsible for their
ignorance, and should be first to recognize
the truth as that is what they seek most.
this response melds a personal message
with ideas that are far from personal.
it is up to the reader to determine what
they think this means, not the writer. i
can only hope that other humans reading
this, if any do, recognize this trap we
exist within, the condition of the networked
space and time we inhabit with our selves,
and the need to work together on finding
better alternatives for the present, and
ways to implement these. if one calls this
madness, they are the ones who are mad.
and madness is not at all that bad, if
one realizes one is indeed insane. at
that point, things get pretty clear,
that nothing is real, unless you make
it real. and i hope others see the reality
of the larger issues this topic of space
holds for our ability to work in this realm
to make things happen for the public good.
everything is privatized. even democratic
thought. it is by default. it is a trap.
a psychological-philosophical conundrum.
no need for doctors and patients. no need
for consumers and survivors. it is time
to Howl and break out of this place.
-human being
the electromagnetic internetwork is
matter, energy, and in-formation
http://www.electronetwork.org/
research in summer 2001:
electromagnetic space & time:
tools will include:
electromagnetic field (EMF) meter
radio scanner
GPS module/pending
geographical traceroute program
_______________________________________________
Nettime-bold mailing list
Nettime-bold {AT} nettime.org
http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold